zengrifter
Banned
Cipher- OH NO, SAY IT AIN'T SO!!
OH NO, SAY IT AINT SO!
The wizard at work
I've re-posted the entire CatmanDude (a/k/a Liquid Chips) story about his experice with Bruce Holway (a/k/a CIPHER). I'm sure that we are all hoping that Bruce Holway tells us his side of the story and doesn't just hide behind attorneys.
Bruce, let us help you mediate this matter of the money. Can you be so kind as return at least the principal amount, to start?
Tim, if we can't see return of principal here then make an appointment to see the Postal Inspector for your region. zg
----------------
Originally posted at Online Players Union
http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92932#post92932
Cipher- The Wizard of BJ
Pulling Back the Curtain
Fear and Trembling
Bruce Holway (aka Cipher) was a respectable man, a knowledgeable man in the game of blackjack. He was well known in the world of gambling and sports-betting. He boasts of winning the largest wager in the history of Harrah's casino on a college basketball game then doubling the win at the blackjack tables. Later, he started gambling on online casinos and made his name among the Internet gambling forums. He helped big winners get their money from reluctant online casinos and seemed to be sharp on the legalities of gambling, online and off. He has two of his own websites and has developed the Cipher software for playing online blackjack. He is.....The Wizard of BJ.
Becoming a Cipher disciple
After many sessions of online blackjack, I was suspicious that the draw of the cards were not random. So I searched on the Internet for answers and came upon a posting by Cipher dealing with randomness of online casino blackjack. I started looking up and reading most of Cipher's postings on the Online Players Union, Casinomeister, and Winner Online. I've studied most of the “strands” and “scrolls” of Bruce's blackjack play that showed him winning hundreds and thousands of dollars in many of his blackjack sessions. Eventually, I tried out Bruce's free version of the Cipher software and was hooked. I started winning some blackjack games. Though it wasn't always easy but I gradually started to get the hang of it. I posted a number of times on his GamblingEdge and OPU websites and learned from him and others.
In Spring 2006, in my personal life, my mother had lived with me already for several month after suffering a stroke the year before. Nursing care is expensive and I was concerned that the money for nursing care was going to run out before my mother was back on her own. So I wanted to find a better investment than the pitiful 5% going rate of various investment vehicles.
Rose-Colored Glasses
I remembered from reading Bruce's CipherBlackjack website about him “advising” some 44 people from around the world on a daily basis. So I inquired Bruce about this as I wondered if he was investing other people's money into his apparently successful blackjack play. He agreed that the interest rate that financial institutions pay was really pathetic and we started setting out some terms at which Bruce would pay me on his blackjack play using my money. We eventually agreed that:
Quote:He would pay 15% per month on $20,000.00 deposited on account with him. It was payable on the first of each month and recurring on a 30 day basis. He would continue to maintain that schedule as long as the initial $20,000.00 remained on account with him. Again, this would be based on thirty day periods of time so once the funds are deposited with him they cannot be withdrawn for a period of 30 days. All play will originate from the United Kingdom and he will be personally responsible for all payments incident to the agreement.
Later, he wrote:
Quote:You can elect to have the $3,000.00 per month that would otherwise be paid to you in the form of interest on account. In that event, the 15% interest would apply to whatever accumulated funds are account.
So this makes our agreement that Cipher will pay 15% accumulated monthly should I desire not to elect to receive a disbursement for any month. Those are damn good terms! But I believe it was possible because.....he was The Wizard Of BJ!!! Actually, if one is to believe the strands and scrolls that Bruce puts on his websites, you'd be convinced that he could do it. I did...after all, he was respected, he didn't hide his address, he just didn't appear to be a scammer. He helped out people get their money from online casinos and from all I've seen, he just looked legit. (Like MC Hammer, as it turned out.)
So in early March 2006, I sent to Bruce $20,000. I received a pro-rated $2,400 at the end of March. Thereafter, I asked him to just add each month's disbursement to the principal and that way the disbursement grows each month.
Keeping The Faith
Several months later, on August 30st, 2006, I asked Cipher to send the September 2006 disbursement since my mother's bank account would be running low in cash by that time. The “interest” for September would be $6,034. Bruce writes:
Quote:“With regards your email of even date, please be advised that I've noted those disbursement details on my calendar. With regards the $6,034.00 at the end of September, what is your preferred method of receiving those funds ie: Cashier's Check, Wire Transfer or Neteller?”
Under Which Cup is the Money?
From here on, the story is more like Alice In Wonderland. The only way I can relate what happened here is by presenting to you the emails between me and Bruce in chronological order. Here goes:
Me (Fri 9/29): Hi B.J. Ummmm, just a-wonderin' about that September disbursement. Did everything go ok during this month? Thanks, Tim
Cipher (Fri 9/29): Hi Tim: Yes, everything went well and your $6,034.00 withdrawal will be going out tomorrow or Monday I'm not sure which as it depends when the funds are transferred to my Credit Union account as the Credit Union is not open on the weekends. Hope all is well with you and your Mom and it's good to see you posting on The Gambling Edge. Unfortunately it looks as though Frist was succesful with his legislative efforts. Have a good one. Cipher
* Monday came and went.
Me (Wed 10/4): Hi Cipher, Was I to get that $6K by now? Tim
Cipher (Wed 10/4): Hi Tim: Actually yes. Unfortunately my Credit Union put a hold on my Money Bookers deposit to my Credit Union account that will clear on Friday. My Plan is to send a Cashier's Check by FEDEX on Friday. Or if you like I can send you a personal check today. Let me know which you prefer. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Wed 10/4): No, no, that's fine. Friday is good. Just wanted to make sure that it didn't get h-u-n-g up by FedEx or something. [Note: Head-bashing already completed.]
* Didn't get a FEDEX tracking number from Cipher on Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Me (Mon 10/9):Hi Cipher, I hope the deposit cleared. This morning, there was a FedEx truck to my apartment building that I thought for sure was for me. :-( Let me know the tracking number so that I can keep a lookout for it. Thanks, Tim [Ain't I so damn sweet? Barf]
Cipher (Mon 10/9): Hi Tim:I don't know if the deposit cleared or not as I just got back to Visalia and the Credit Union has been closed the last 3 days. But I'll find out in the morning and email you with a raccking [sic] number then. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
* I don't hear from Cipher for three days. Why do I have to always initiate conversation here? Disillusionment starting to creep in.
Me (Thurs 10/12): What is the latest on the disbursement? Tim
Cipher (Thurs 10/12): Hi Tim: It will be going out this afternoon and I'll send you the tracking number out this afternoon. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher) [Oh goodie goodie goodie!]
* Why do I have to always initiate conversation here? Oh wait, I already said that. Another two days go by.
Me (Sat 10/14): Hi B.J.My brother is getting nervous about this. Did you send out the disbursement yet? Tim
Cipher (Sat 10/14): Hi Tim: I too am a little concerned as to the amount of time the credit union has taken to clear these latest Money Booker transactions. I checked the Credit Union account (just before emailing this)and those items are showing as cleared now. The Credit Union is not open on the weekend, but now that those items have cleared I'll be able to get them out by FEDEX on Monday. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Mon 10/16): Hi Cipher, Should I be watching for the FedEx tomorrow? Tim [Yeah, I know....by now you're wondering if “I” am the one whose brain ain't screwed on right.]
Cipher (Tues 10/17): Hi Tim: I just got back to Visalia this morning but you can look to have it there tomorrow. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher) [Wha?? You were gone? ok.]
* Oooookaaay....at this point I'm getting very concerned [finally!, you say]. I contacted a guy who I've seen on Cipher's GamblingEdge website quite often and seemed to have an inside track into Bruce's operations. I'll call him Richard {not his real name.} I wanted to know if there was anything he could tell me that will make sense of what I was experiencing with Bruce. I was concerned that Bruce was in financial trouble from gambling too much or lost a lot of money in sports-betting or what. Well, Richard, himself, had some money invested with Cipher and he was livid that he wasn't the only one who wasn't getting paid. Richard had some harsher words for Cipher but I wasn't at that point yet. In any case, this was troubling news.
* Tomorrow comes and goes. Nothing in the mail or FEDEX. Damn. ANOTHER three days pass.
Me (Thurs 10/19): Hi Cipher, The money did not arrive yesterday nor today. I'm frustrated with this. I would like the tracking number of the shipment. Thanks, Tim
Cipher (Thurs 10/19): Hi Tim: You couldn't be anymore frustrated than I am about this, as I'm still waiting for the Credit Union to verify my funds received from Money Bookers. I'll be going down there in the AM and I can assure you that I'll have a satisfactory answer or someones head one of the two. When I return from the Credit Union I'll email you. Have a good one. B.J. (cipher)
Me (Fri 10/20 Evening): Hi Cipher, Well, what did they say? If they are stalling on it then perhaps it would be better for you to send a personal check because would knows how much longer it will take. My mother needs that money now. I'm sure that the funds from Money Bookers would eventually clear but can't wait any longer. Thanks,T.B.
House of Cards
Cipher never responded. Meanwhile, me and Richard were discussing what to do, legal and otherwise, for our situation. One day, Richard contacted Cipher (angrily, I assume) and Cipher learned that I had been talking with Richard about Cipher not paying. Next, I get this:
Cipher (Wed 10/25): Hi Tim: I'm advised that you evidentally [sic] felt the need to contact [Richard]......... with regards the arrangement that you and I have had. Accordingly Tim, that arrangement is now over with. Please advise me at your earliest opportunity as to what you feel is owed to you and I'll send you those funds to you on the first of November. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Wed 10/25): Hi B.J., In accordance with our (prior) arrangement, which was 15% on accumulated balance monthly, the balance at the end of October would be $53,200. We sent to you in March $20,000 and you sent $2,400 for that month. Thereafter, starting beginning of April, the 15% of accumulated balance started...... I became concerned about the slow September payment, slow email responses, and my brother was very fearful that I gave our mother's money away to never be seen again. I contacted Richard because he appeared to be working with you on your projects. I wanted to know if he was aware of any problems behind the scenes with your ability to pay and he said he had the same delay problems too. I'm sorry that our arrangement had to end this way but it is the best that it end, for now at least. I would still like to contribute in a positive way at the Gambling Edge forum in regards to the Cipher software and the use of your excellent software, if that is ok with you. Very sincerely, Timothy Bell
* At the same time that I was writing the above email to Cipher, Richard continues to try to convince Bruce to pay us and sent proof to him that I was angry too with him. That prompts Bruce to send the follow to Richard and cc'd to me:
Cipher (Wed 10/25): Yes [Richard]: You need to make absolutely certain that you do not call me, write me or > even email me. The only contact that I want to have with you and/or Tim is > through your attorneys. Now put up or shut up. B.J. (cipher)
* With embarrassment to all the world, I wrote this to Cipher:
Me (Wed 10/25): Bruce, For what it's worth, I'm sorry for the comments made by me to [Richard] in regards to your character. They were made on the assumption that you were not going to pull through on your promise to send the disbursement(s). ..... I only made them to David and no one else. I don't know what else I can say. Sincerely, Tim
* November 1st, the date Bruce said he would pay the balance of the account, came and went with nothing received from Bruce. I kept in touch with Richard and started to give some other people, such as Damian at OPU, some notice as to trouble with Bruce/Cipher. Then on November 6th, out of the blue, Bruce surprised me with this email:
Cipher (Mon 11/6): Hi Cat: Sorry that it's taken so long to respond to your last email. Understand CAT I'm not even upset with you. You've got every right to be concerned about your account status. I've talk with a couple of the casions to wit I'm owed sizeable amounts of funds and I'm assured that those funds will be made available within the next week to 10 days. Once those funds are made available you will be made whole in short order. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Mon 11/6): Dear Bruce, Thank you for this email. You have a good reputation on the various casino boards and I trust that reputation. Cipher is excellent software though it's my fault that I haven't yet been able to KEEP the winnings I've generated. Well, that's beside the point. I'll be looking forward for the funds.Tim [OK, you can shoot me now, readers.]
...continued>>>
OH NO, SAY IT AINT SO!
The wizard at work
I've re-posted the entire CatmanDude (a/k/a Liquid Chips) story about his experice with Bruce Holway (a/k/a CIPHER). I'm sure that we are all hoping that Bruce Holway tells us his side of the story and doesn't just hide behind attorneys.
Bruce, let us help you mediate this matter of the money. Can you be so kind as return at least the principal amount, to start?
Tim, if we can't see return of principal here then make an appointment to see the Postal Inspector for your region. zg
----------------
Originally posted at Online Players Union
http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92932#post92932
Cipher- The Wizard of BJ
Pulling Back the Curtain
Fear and Trembling
Bruce Holway (aka Cipher) was a respectable man, a knowledgeable man in the game of blackjack. He was well known in the world of gambling and sports-betting. He boasts of winning the largest wager in the history of Harrah's casino on a college basketball game then doubling the win at the blackjack tables. Later, he started gambling on online casinos and made his name among the Internet gambling forums. He helped big winners get their money from reluctant online casinos and seemed to be sharp on the legalities of gambling, online and off. He has two of his own websites and has developed the Cipher software for playing online blackjack. He is.....The Wizard of BJ.
Becoming a Cipher disciple
After many sessions of online blackjack, I was suspicious that the draw of the cards were not random. So I searched on the Internet for answers and came upon a posting by Cipher dealing with randomness of online casino blackjack. I started looking up and reading most of Cipher's postings on the Online Players Union, Casinomeister, and Winner Online. I've studied most of the “strands” and “scrolls” of Bruce's blackjack play that showed him winning hundreds and thousands of dollars in many of his blackjack sessions. Eventually, I tried out Bruce's free version of the Cipher software and was hooked. I started winning some blackjack games. Though it wasn't always easy but I gradually started to get the hang of it. I posted a number of times on his GamblingEdge and OPU websites and learned from him and others.
In Spring 2006, in my personal life, my mother had lived with me already for several month after suffering a stroke the year before. Nursing care is expensive and I was concerned that the money for nursing care was going to run out before my mother was back on her own. So I wanted to find a better investment than the pitiful 5% going rate of various investment vehicles.
Rose-Colored Glasses
I remembered from reading Bruce's CipherBlackjack website about him “advising” some 44 people from around the world on a daily basis. So I inquired Bruce about this as I wondered if he was investing other people's money into his apparently successful blackjack play. He agreed that the interest rate that financial institutions pay was really pathetic and we started setting out some terms at which Bruce would pay me on his blackjack play using my money. We eventually agreed that:
Quote:He would pay 15% per month on $20,000.00 deposited on account with him. It was payable on the first of each month and recurring on a 30 day basis. He would continue to maintain that schedule as long as the initial $20,000.00 remained on account with him. Again, this would be based on thirty day periods of time so once the funds are deposited with him they cannot be withdrawn for a period of 30 days. All play will originate from the United Kingdom and he will be personally responsible for all payments incident to the agreement.
Later, he wrote:
Quote:You can elect to have the $3,000.00 per month that would otherwise be paid to you in the form of interest on account. In that event, the 15% interest would apply to whatever accumulated funds are account.
So this makes our agreement that Cipher will pay 15% accumulated monthly should I desire not to elect to receive a disbursement for any month. Those are damn good terms! But I believe it was possible because.....he was The Wizard Of BJ!!! Actually, if one is to believe the strands and scrolls that Bruce puts on his websites, you'd be convinced that he could do it. I did...after all, he was respected, he didn't hide his address, he just didn't appear to be a scammer. He helped out people get their money from online casinos and from all I've seen, he just looked legit. (Like MC Hammer, as it turned out.)
So in early March 2006, I sent to Bruce $20,000. I received a pro-rated $2,400 at the end of March. Thereafter, I asked him to just add each month's disbursement to the principal and that way the disbursement grows each month.
Keeping The Faith
Several months later, on August 30st, 2006, I asked Cipher to send the September 2006 disbursement since my mother's bank account would be running low in cash by that time. The “interest” for September would be $6,034. Bruce writes:
Quote:“With regards your email of even date, please be advised that I've noted those disbursement details on my calendar. With regards the $6,034.00 at the end of September, what is your preferred method of receiving those funds ie: Cashier's Check, Wire Transfer or Neteller?”
Under Which Cup is the Money?
From here on, the story is more like Alice In Wonderland. The only way I can relate what happened here is by presenting to you the emails between me and Bruce in chronological order. Here goes:
Me (Fri 9/29): Hi B.J. Ummmm, just a-wonderin' about that September disbursement. Did everything go ok during this month? Thanks, Tim
Cipher (Fri 9/29): Hi Tim: Yes, everything went well and your $6,034.00 withdrawal will be going out tomorrow or Monday I'm not sure which as it depends when the funds are transferred to my Credit Union account as the Credit Union is not open on the weekends. Hope all is well with you and your Mom and it's good to see you posting on The Gambling Edge. Unfortunately it looks as though Frist was succesful with his legislative efforts. Have a good one. Cipher
* Monday came and went.
Me (Wed 10/4): Hi Cipher, Was I to get that $6K by now? Tim
Cipher (Wed 10/4): Hi Tim: Actually yes. Unfortunately my Credit Union put a hold on my Money Bookers deposit to my Credit Union account that will clear on Friday. My Plan is to send a Cashier's Check by FEDEX on Friday. Or if you like I can send you a personal check today. Let me know which you prefer. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Wed 10/4): No, no, that's fine. Friday is good. Just wanted to make sure that it didn't get h-u-n-g up by FedEx or something. [Note: Head-bashing already completed.]
* Didn't get a FEDEX tracking number from Cipher on Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Me (Mon 10/9):Hi Cipher, I hope the deposit cleared. This morning, there was a FedEx truck to my apartment building that I thought for sure was for me. :-( Let me know the tracking number so that I can keep a lookout for it. Thanks, Tim [Ain't I so damn sweet? Barf]
Cipher (Mon 10/9): Hi Tim:I don't know if the deposit cleared or not as I just got back to Visalia and the Credit Union has been closed the last 3 days. But I'll find out in the morning and email you with a raccking [sic] number then. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
* I don't hear from Cipher for three days. Why do I have to always initiate conversation here? Disillusionment starting to creep in.
Me (Thurs 10/12): What is the latest on the disbursement? Tim
Cipher (Thurs 10/12): Hi Tim: It will be going out this afternoon and I'll send you the tracking number out this afternoon. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher) [Oh goodie goodie goodie!]
* Why do I have to always initiate conversation here? Oh wait, I already said that. Another two days go by.
Me (Sat 10/14): Hi B.J.My brother is getting nervous about this. Did you send out the disbursement yet? Tim
Cipher (Sat 10/14): Hi Tim: I too am a little concerned as to the amount of time the credit union has taken to clear these latest Money Booker transactions. I checked the Credit Union account (just before emailing this)and those items are showing as cleared now. The Credit Union is not open on the weekend, but now that those items have cleared I'll be able to get them out by FEDEX on Monday. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Mon 10/16): Hi Cipher, Should I be watching for the FedEx tomorrow? Tim [Yeah, I know....by now you're wondering if “I” am the one whose brain ain't screwed on right.]
Cipher (Tues 10/17): Hi Tim: I just got back to Visalia this morning but you can look to have it there tomorrow. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher) [Wha?? You were gone? ok.]
* Oooookaaay....at this point I'm getting very concerned [finally!, you say]. I contacted a guy who I've seen on Cipher's GamblingEdge website quite often and seemed to have an inside track into Bruce's operations. I'll call him Richard {not his real name.} I wanted to know if there was anything he could tell me that will make sense of what I was experiencing with Bruce. I was concerned that Bruce was in financial trouble from gambling too much or lost a lot of money in sports-betting or what. Well, Richard, himself, had some money invested with Cipher and he was livid that he wasn't the only one who wasn't getting paid. Richard had some harsher words for Cipher but I wasn't at that point yet. In any case, this was troubling news.
* Tomorrow comes and goes. Nothing in the mail or FEDEX. Damn. ANOTHER three days pass.
Me (Thurs 10/19): Hi Cipher, The money did not arrive yesterday nor today. I'm frustrated with this. I would like the tracking number of the shipment. Thanks, Tim
Cipher (Thurs 10/19): Hi Tim: You couldn't be anymore frustrated than I am about this, as I'm still waiting for the Credit Union to verify my funds received from Money Bookers. I'll be going down there in the AM and I can assure you that I'll have a satisfactory answer or someones head one of the two. When I return from the Credit Union I'll email you. Have a good one. B.J. (cipher)
Me (Fri 10/20 Evening): Hi Cipher, Well, what did they say? If they are stalling on it then perhaps it would be better for you to send a personal check because would knows how much longer it will take. My mother needs that money now. I'm sure that the funds from Money Bookers would eventually clear but can't wait any longer. Thanks,T.B.
House of Cards
Cipher never responded. Meanwhile, me and Richard were discussing what to do, legal and otherwise, for our situation. One day, Richard contacted Cipher (angrily, I assume) and Cipher learned that I had been talking with Richard about Cipher not paying. Next, I get this:
Cipher (Wed 10/25): Hi Tim: I'm advised that you evidentally [sic] felt the need to contact [Richard]......... with regards the arrangement that you and I have had. Accordingly Tim, that arrangement is now over with. Please advise me at your earliest opportunity as to what you feel is owed to you and I'll send you those funds to you on the first of November. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Wed 10/25): Hi B.J., In accordance with our (prior) arrangement, which was 15% on accumulated balance monthly, the balance at the end of October would be $53,200. We sent to you in March $20,000 and you sent $2,400 for that month. Thereafter, starting beginning of April, the 15% of accumulated balance started...... I became concerned about the slow September payment, slow email responses, and my brother was very fearful that I gave our mother's money away to never be seen again. I contacted Richard because he appeared to be working with you on your projects. I wanted to know if he was aware of any problems behind the scenes with your ability to pay and he said he had the same delay problems too. I'm sorry that our arrangement had to end this way but it is the best that it end, for now at least. I would still like to contribute in a positive way at the Gambling Edge forum in regards to the Cipher software and the use of your excellent software, if that is ok with you. Very sincerely, Timothy Bell
* At the same time that I was writing the above email to Cipher, Richard continues to try to convince Bruce to pay us and sent proof to him that I was angry too with him. That prompts Bruce to send the follow to Richard and cc'd to me:
Cipher (Wed 10/25): Yes [Richard]: You need to make absolutely certain that you do not call me, write me or > even email me. The only contact that I want to have with you and/or Tim is > through your attorneys. Now put up or shut up. B.J. (cipher)
* With embarrassment to all the world, I wrote this to Cipher:
Me (Wed 10/25): Bruce, For what it's worth, I'm sorry for the comments made by me to [Richard] in regards to your character. They were made on the assumption that you were not going to pull through on your promise to send the disbursement(s). ..... I only made them to David and no one else. I don't know what else I can say. Sincerely, Tim
* November 1st, the date Bruce said he would pay the balance of the account, came and went with nothing received from Bruce. I kept in touch with Richard and started to give some other people, such as Damian at OPU, some notice as to trouble with Bruce/Cipher. Then on November 6th, out of the blue, Bruce surprised me with this email:
Cipher (Mon 11/6): Hi Cat: Sorry that it's taken so long to respond to your last email. Understand CAT I'm not even upset with you. You've got every right to be concerned about your account status. I've talk with a couple of the casions to wit I'm owed sizeable amounts of funds and I'm assured that those funds will be made available within the next week to 10 days. Once those funds are made available you will be made whole in short order. Have a good one. B. J. (cipher)
Me (Mon 11/6): Dear Bruce, Thank you for this email. You have a good reputation on the various casino boards and I trust that reputation. Cipher is excellent software though it's my fault that I haven't yet been able to KEEP the winnings I've generated. Well, that's beside the point. I'll be looking forward for the funds.Tim [OK, you can shoot me now, readers.]
...continued>>>
