Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Subtitle: Pulling Back the Curtain
http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92932#post92932
http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92932#post92932
Cipher- The Wizard of BJ
- Thread starter Liquid Chips
- Start date
muddyfunster
New Member
Sick
That is a tale of woe. It never ceases to amaze me that people are suckered into handing over massive amounts of their hard earned on to-good-to-be-true promises of wealth. This guy actually thinks he's due $98,000 after an initial investment of $20K. He'll be lucky if he gets the price of a big mac!
Assuming the story is true of course...
MF
That is a tale of woe. It never ceases to amaze me that people are suckered into handing over massive amounts of their hard earned on to-good-to-be-true promises of wealth. This guy actually thinks he's due $98,000 after an initial investment of $20K. He'll be lucky if he gets the price of a big mac!
Assuming the story is true of course...
MF
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Well, I actually been flogging myself over this too. :whip: But two things: Cipher had a respectable reputation during October 2005 to March 2006 when I gave Cipher the money. I used his Cipher software quite successfully though I made bone-head :whip: bad money management and did keep my profits.muddyfunster said:
$98,000? How did you arrive at that number? It was $81,000. That is the number I would use IF CIPHER DECIDES TO TAKE ME TO COURT OVER THE POSTING. I only asked for the $20,000 back, but actually me and my brother asked just for $17,600 back since Cipher DID pay $2,400 in March 2006. But if he takes me (us) to court, then damn, I'm gonna hold Cipher to our original agreement of 15% per month until he drops the case or we get a judges decision. I thought a careful read of the posting would have made this clear.
I ain't exposing myself to lawsuits just for the fun of it, man!
muddyfunster
New Member
apologies
Sorry Liquid Chips, my recall is poor today and I did only scan read the article. You are correct, the figure is $81K not $98K.
When you say Cipher's reputation was good between October 2005 and March 2006 what do you mean? What led you to that conclusion? Where did you get you information from? Who recommended Cipher? Where they reputable?
I'm not trying to run you down, and I do feel genuinely sorry for you. You have been ripped off by an out and out fraudster and I have no doubt that your case against him will be well recieved in a court of law.
I'm just trying to understand why, out of all the ways you could have invested your money, you went down this route? If you'd asked a 100 random people whether it was a good idea I would be suprised if more than 5 said go for it! If you'd have come to this forum or others like it before you invested and asked the question, you'd have got 100% no, don't do it!!!
As for the story being true, well I'm more convinced that it is now, but one thing I do know is not to trust everything I read on the internet.
MF
Sorry Liquid Chips, my recall is poor today and I did only scan read the article. You are correct, the figure is $81K not $98K.
When you say Cipher's reputation was good between October 2005 and March 2006 what do you mean? What led you to that conclusion? Where did you get you information from? Who recommended Cipher? Where they reputable?
I'm not trying to run you down, and I do feel genuinely sorry for you. You have been ripped off by an out and out fraudster and I have no doubt that your case against him will be well recieved in a court of law.
I'm just trying to understand why, out of all the ways you could have invested your money, you went down this route? If you'd asked a 100 random people whether it was a good idea I would be suprised if more than 5 said go for it! If you'd have come to this forum or others like it before you invested and asked the question, you'd have got 100% no, don't do it!!!
As for the story being true, well I'm more convinced that it is now, but one thing I do know is not to trust everything I read on the internet.
MF
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Well, in the beginning of my post, in Cipher- The Wizard of BJ, I mentioned that I read nearly all of Cipher's postings on Casinomeister, Online Players Union, and Winner Online. In fact I did even more reading from Googling 'Cipher' and 'Bruce Holway.' Cipher did get banned one time from Casinomeister but that was from a pissing contest between him and another poster, not from doing shady deals or anything. But the overall "feel" I got from the people who responded to Cipher was one of respect. Usually people wouild say, "why don't you contact Cipher" when a big winner complained that they weren't able to get their money from an online casino. Hell, he even held the record one time at Harrod's for the biggest win in betting on a college basketball game. His address and phone number was readily available and his website seemed intelligently written. Are you getting the picture? To me, a scamster would use a P.O. Box and wouldn't be too open as much as Cipher has/is. I expected many more people to be critical of him than they have been if he was considered shady. So I trusted him....and got burned. I want others to learn from my mistakes.muddyfunster said:
Well, I was trying to grow my funds so that I could take care of my mother for the longer term if it came to that point. 5% on $20,000 wasn't going to last very long when your nursing expenses is above $3,000 a month. It was only recently that I learned that Medicaid DID pay for nursing expenses from the home- I was given wrong information. But nevertheless, if my mother received Medicaid, then the $20,000 would have to be given over to Medicaid anyway. Well, back to the point, Cipher seemed to play online blackjack very very well and to me, it was possible for him to be able to make a whole lot more than $3,000 that he would pay me on the $20,000.
I've learned the hard way.
Thanks for your other comments.
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Brutus. Closing her bank account the other day, I unexpectedly started tearing up. Man, it was only a bank account. Miss her much.Brutus said:
Now I'm going to do exactly what I did with the last pile of garbage that came up a couple of months ago. I'm going to give you a couple of days to get everything you want to get out there. But let me give you fair warning, if you're looking for sympathy you'd better check in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.
These are the words of wit that I received from your brother via email this morning. "QUOTE DAN BELL the brother of TIM BELL aka LIQUID CHIPS: When will you believe we are men of our word?? This is just the beginning and this is my word."
That coupled with the assistance of the many BELL cousins retired from the F.B.I. and the Secret Service not the least of which is Uncle DONNY BELL of Louisville, Kentucky who has run for Governor on more than one occasion, as he holds a retirement from the F.B.I and the Secret Service and he's helped me clear up matters in the past and you'll be no exception. And then of course there's BRUCE ALEXANDER (retired Secret Service) that will be more than willing to assist.
You're going to need all the help you can muster Danny Boy.
Go deep, really deep.
Have a good one.
Cipher
These are the words of wit that I received from your brother via email this morning. "QUOTE DAN BELL the brother of TIM BELL aka LIQUID CHIPS: When will you believe we are men of our word?? This is just the beginning and this is my word."
That coupled with the assistance of the many BELL cousins retired from the F.B.I. and the Secret Service not the least of which is Uncle DONNY BELL of Louisville, Kentucky who has run for Governor on more than one occasion, as he holds a retirement from the F.B.I and the Secret Service and he's helped me clear up matters in the past and you'll be no exception. And then of course there's BRUCE ALEXANDER (retired Secret Service) that will be more than willing to assist.
You're going to need all the help you can muster Danny Boy.
Go deep, really deep.
Have a good one.
Cipher
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
We will, Cipher, believe me, WE WILL!!!CIPHER said:
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Has anyone noticed that Cipher is not addressing the posting at all? Like it doesn't exist? What does that tell you? Seems to me he is trying to divert attention away from it.
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
One, you leave my brother alone. I can't control him (he's vicious!).CIPHER said:
Two, what the hell do you mean by "I'm going to give you a couple of days to get everything you want to get out there." Sounds like a threat and you had the [whatever] to write that in front of witnesses???? Don't give too much legal rope to hang you with, Cipher. Or as Borat would joyfully say, "High Five!"
Liquid Chips
Well-Known Member
Where's all the hot air coming from?? You told my brother and me that you reported one of his emails and two of mine (the last two emails I wrote to Cipher in the Cipher- The Wizard of BJ post) to our local US District Attorney office last week. Bzzzzzt! Didn't happen- no calls to us. Keep it up....we need some hot air over here on the East Coast.CIPHER said:
Very astute observation BRUTUS, you go to the head of the class. Yes, I did and that agreement had absolutley nothing to do with Blackjack at all, not one thing.Brutus said:
And now there's a question as to whether or not LIQUID CHIP'S aka Tim Bell, aka B. J._WIZ, aka CATMAN DUDE, aka WESTLAND BOWL's mother had any knowledge of what her son Timmy was doing with her money and that her other son Danny Boy is now upset that he wasn't aware that Timmy had structured an agreement which would bring him 15% interest.
Oh it get's better. But as I said I'm going to give them (all of them) a couple days to get everything out there.
Cipher
zengrifter
Banned
That's a hell 0f a quote from a guy who's holding the 'investment'. AND LiquidChips was the ONLY member here who previously stuck up for CIPHER. zgCIPHER said:
Wait a minute, weren't you one of Cipher's most enthusiastic supporters a while back? What happened?Liquid Chips said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you were the guy who said results were not about simulation, but were about constantly having winning sessions. It sounded like you were doing so well with Cipher's software. I'm just curious to how that fell apart.
zengrifter
Banned
LChips,was your contract with CIPHER memorialized in writing, in front? Or just email comunications? zgLiquid Chips said: