Colombia - Is the house edge negative?

[Blake Peterson]

I think this casino has a negative edge. So playing perfect basic strategy should yield a profit.

I'd really appreciate if the pros here could confirm this ( I think the edge is -.7%)

Dealer deals only one card to himself
I can surrender any cards (even when the dealer shows an ace)
I can split and double aces ( I get one card each).
I can continue to split aces (if I don't double, up to 4 hands)
If I split and double my aces, and the dealer pulls a blackjack. I lose only my original bets (not the doubles)
I can split any pair up to a maximum of 4 hands.
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 3:2
Anytime the dealer shows a 10, I can take insurance against a blackjack - that pays 10:1 (I think the only time this might be useful is when I have a blackjack and the dealer shows a 10... then again maybe not.)
I can double on any 2 cards

I hope I haven't missed anything.

This casino has 3 tables (amounts in US$)
Table 1: Min 1, Max 40 - CSM
Table 2: Min 3, Max 90 - 6 deck Shoe (penetration about 25-33%)
Table 3: Min 7, Max 175 - 6 deck Shoe (penetration about 25-33%)

A big thanks in advance.

Blake

 

[Meistro]

All the games I encountered in Colombia were ENHC. It sounds like you are playing in Barranquila. The player does in fact have a modest advantage off the top, but less than .7%.

"(I think the only time this might be useful is when I have a blackjack and the dealer shows a 10... then again maybe not.)"

No. You could side count aces if you want to take advantage of insurance vs ten. My impression is that you need one extra ace per deck remaining to make this insurance vs ten +EV . Then the question of how much to bet per ace density is an interesting one as well. The fact this is a high variance wager makes betting a smaller % of your bankroll more attractive. In my experience they tend to accept pretty large wagers for this bet. i'm not sure what the cap is generally but I believe I remember people betting as much as their main hand on the long shot insurance facing the ten.

 

[Meistro]

incidentally if you would like to exchange some info on colombia, i played in medellin, cali and barranquilla and am interested in learning about other areas of the country if you have any knowledge.


Just to clarify, you are talking about splitting aces for double, yes? Not doubling split aces? Splitting aces for double means you put up another 3 units, but get one card on each ace. For example, you bet $5 and get AA. You then put up another $15, so there is $10 on each ace, and receive exactly one card to each ace. This is how they do it in Barranquilla. But my understanding is that this is a ENHC game, so in the event of a dealer blackjack you would lose all bets. Also basic strategy in a ENHC game is not to split AA v A.

 

[LatamCC]

Hello everyone. I'm From Perú, not far from Colombia and the rules here are:

6Deck S17 DAS (up to 4 times)
BJ Pays 3:2
No peek for blackjack
Surrender against 2-10
If you double or split (or both) and dealer turns a blackjack you only loose the original bet
Some casinos burn only 1 card, they show it to players and have a 1-1.5 deck pen.
Some casinos offer insurance against a 10 that pays 10:1, also regualr inssurance against an Ace and even money.

Average games are S/.10-200 min/max (around 3 to 65USD)

I'm on a low BR so i'm currently on a 1-6 spread. Is this a beatable game ? Thanks a lot!

 

[LatamCC]

This are my results since I started, each dot is a "trip" (I take 60 units) with 1 to 6 hours of play in one ore multiple casinos. This is beacause casinos are here in the City. It seems to be going good but i'm not that familiar with the more technical aspecs of risk calculation so this might be just possitive variance or.. "luck".

PD. I'm using hi-lo with I18 (not 100% sharp at the I18 part but strong in the RC, TC)

 

[Meistro]

"I'm on a low BR so i'm currently on a 1-6 spread. Is this a beatable game ? Thanks a lot!"

Definitely. You have described a GREAT game. Very good rules and a very good cut. You do not need much of a spread to beat this game.

The only concern would be if you are making any errors. If you'd like, I could give you a skills test. What we would do is meet up online, then do a screen share and I would watch you play the basic strategy trainer here. You can set the rules and it is a countable game. Then I could tell you if you are making any mistakes in your play.


House edge with these rules is around 0.14%. You should have a substantial advantage at TC +1.


You need a bankroll of around 6,000 SOL to be properly rolled for this game w/ 60 sol max bet.

Incidentally, if you would be willing to share any more details about this game (city / casino) I would love to hear about them over private message.

 

[Blake Peterson]

Thanks @Meistro

It sounds like you are playing in Barranquila.

Yep.

I'm just a recreational player for now. So I don't think there's much I can tell you. I'm starting to learn how to count, I've got a long way to go yet. I can count down a couple of decks OK. And I still need to work on my basic strategy.

The Colombians play terribly. I saw one player surrender everything other than a 20 when the dealer shows an up card of 10... I bet the only reason why the casinos offer these crazy rules is because everyone plays so bad.

How would I work out variations for a game like this, once I get my counting & basic strategy down?

 

[Meistro]

Barranquilla is a tremendously hot and humid city, presumably due to it's proximity to the equator and the coast, respectively.

Basic strategy for play in Colombia is different because they use full early surrender and the ENHC rule. You can get the complete basic strategy for this game by going to basic strategy engine on this website


https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-basic-strategy-engine/



Use the following settings :

6 decks
Dealer Stands on S17,
Double Any 2
Double After Split
Early Surrender
No Peek European Style

This gives a house edge of -0.08%.

But this is without accounting for the split aces for double rule, which is quite advantageous to the player. My guess is that splitting aces for double is worth about another +0.2% but that is just a guess not a precise calculation. As advantageous as it is to be able to split aces for double, a pair of aces is a very rare hand to get, as any no limit holdem player knows only too well.

The main difference in Colombia blackjack is early surrender against ace. Surrender everything except 4, 8, 9, 10, 11 and soft hands against ace. 22 is a surrender at +1 or a basic strategy surrender in a H17 game.

 

[Meistro]

IIRC the two casinos I found with shoe games in Barranquilla were located in shopping malls. I think they were Casino Zamba and Casino Buenavista but it has been a year.

 

[T-Bone]

I think this casino has a negative edge. So playing perfect basic strategy should yield a profit.

I'd really appreciate if the pros here could confirm this ( I think the edge is -.7%)

Dealer deals only one card to himself
I can surrender any cards (even when the dealer shows an ace)
I can split and double aces ( I get one card each).
I can continue to split aces (if I don't double, up to 4 hands)
If I split and double my aces, and the dealer pulls a blackjack. I lose only my original bets (not the doubles)
I can split any pair up to a maximum of 4 hands.
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 3:2
Anytime the dealer shows a 10, I can take insurance against a blackjack - that pays 10:1 (I think the only time this might be useful is when I have a blackjack and the dealer shows a 10... then again maybe not.)
I can double on any 2 cards

I hope I haven't missed anything.

This casino has 3 tables (amounts in US$)
Table 1: Min 1, Max 40 - CSM
Table 2: Min 3, Max 90 - 6 deck Shoe (penetration about 25-33%)
Table 3: Min 7, Max 175 - 6 deck Shoe (penetration about 25-33%)

A big thanks in advance.

Blake

Hello,

Just to be clear, as I am not entirely sure of the semantic convention, but do you mean penetration of about 67-75%, meaning that you get to play 67-75% of the cards and they cut out (with the cut card) 25-33% of the stack at the back? Or is it as you've stated, that you get to play only 25-33% of the cards in the 6 deck stack (which is horrible penetration but not unheard of)

Thanks

 

[T-Bone]

All the games I encountered in Colombia were ENHC. It sounds like you are playing in Barranquila. The player does in fact have a modest advantage off the top, but less than .7%.

"(I think the only time this might be useful is when I have a blackjack and the dealer shows a 10... then again maybe not.)"

No. You could side count aces if you want to take advantage of insurance vs ten. My impression is that you need one extra ace per deck remaining to make this insurance vs ten +EV . Then the question of how much to bet per ace density is an interesting one as well. The fact this is a high variance wager makes betting a smaller % of your bankroll more attractive. In my experience they tend to accept pretty large wagers for this bet. i'm not sure what the cap is generally but I believe I remember people betting as much as their main hand on the long shot insurance facing the ten.

unless my math is off, it becomes positive EV when the probability of the dealer having/drawing an ace becomes just over 1 in 10, or 5.2 per 52 cards. so you need 1.2 extra aces per deck. This would indeed be a high variance bet, but if you are an ace side counter and end up with a whole bunch of unseen aces at the end of the shoe, this would be a hugely profitable bet. (unless the high ace count means the casino is cheating by taking some aces out.......)

 

[T-Bone]

incidentally if you would like to exchange some info on colombia, i played in medellin, cali and barranquilla and am interested in learning about other areas of the country if you have any knowledge.


Just to clarify, you are talking about splitting aces for double, yes? Not doubling split aces? Splitting aces for double means you put up another 3 units, but get one card on each ace. For example, you bet $5 and get AA. You then put up another $15, so there is $10 on each ace, and receive exactly one card to each ace. This is how they do it in Barranquilla. But my understanding is that this is a ENHC game, so in the event of a dealer blackjack you would lose all bets. Also basic strategy in a ENHC game is not to split AA v A.

How interesting. I haven't seen splitting aces for double as you have described. I assume it's implied that if you split aces for double, you don't have the option to resplit? And splitting aces for double is an option, not a requirement (i.e. you may opt to split aces for the same amout as the original bet and retain the option to resplit aces should you receive yet another one?)