Comps
- Thread starter Gators4012
- Start date
How The Comp System Works
The definitive book on the topic is "Comp City"- but here is the basic idea about how it all works.
The casino records how long you play for, the game type, and your average wager, presuming that you are betting enough to warrant their attention.
Note: If you are playing at a $15 minimum bet blackjack table (or less) you are very unlikely to be rated at all in many venues.
They then use a simple algorithm that multiplies your average wager times your mathematically expected loss (based upon the particular rules, etc.) times the number of hands per hour (depending on the game) They then will "reward" you with comps' to the tune of a certain % of that "theoretical loss" figure. Most casino nowadays use 24% Some will adjust it to as high as 40% if you are a completely clueless gambler.
Here are examples:
You are playing Blackjack for two (2) hrs. You look to be averaging about $30 per hand. The casino will probably use 1% as your disadvantage - [higher than Basic Strategy, but few players play perfect Basic Strategy] They will probably use just 60 hands per hour, [which is only accurate on crowded full tables]
You played 2 hrs. That is roughly 120 hands. Times your average bet of $30 = $3,600. Your "theoretical loss" is about 1% of that. Now you are at $36 Your available comps computed as 24% of that amount = $8.64 so when you ask for a "coffee shop comp" [or nowadays you will be swiping your player's card] you will have less than enough for breakfast.
Let's look at someone else who is playing some other (carnival) game. The game will be "Caribbean Stud Poker" and he is betting an average of $100 per hand for 4 hrs. The house edge is (an appalling) 3.5% Hands per hour I will use 100 for this example.
This sucker wants to eat at a gourmet restaurant and is estimating that he and his date will need at least $100 to do so (tips are never covered). He also wants a limo to ferry him home and impress his companion.
$100 per hand times 4 hours at 100 hands per hour times 3.5% times 24% computes as follows:
$100 x 400 x 3.5% x 24% = $336
He and his wife enjoy a gourmet dinner and drink "Dom Perignon" Champagne, [although they are not getting "Kristal" Champagne.]
The definitive book on the topic is "Comp City"- but here is the basic idea about how it all works.
The casino records how long you play for, the game type, and your average wager, presuming that you are betting enough to warrant their attention.
Note: If you are playing at a $15 minimum bet blackjack table (or less) you are very unlikely to be rated at all in many venues.
They then use a simple algorithm that multiplies your average wager times your mathematically expected loss (based upon the particular rules, etc.) times the number of hands per hour (depending on the game) They then will "reward" you with comps' to the tune of a certain % of that "theoretical loss" figure. Most casino nowadays use 24% Some will adjust it to as high as 40% if you are a completely clueless gambler.
Here are examples:
You are playing Blackjack for two (2) hrs. You look to be averaging about $30 per hand. The casino will probably use 1% as your disadvantage - [higher than Basic Strategy, but few players play perfect Basic Strategy] They will probably use just 60 hands per hour, [which is only accurate on crowded full tables]
You played 2 hrs. That is roughly 120 hands. Times your average bet of $30 = $3,600. Your "theoretical loss" is about 1% of that. Now you are at $36 Your available comps computed as 24% of that amount = $8.64 so when you ask for a "coffee shop comp" [or nowadays you will be swiping your player's card] you will have less than enough for breakfast.
Let's look at someone else who is playing some other (carnival) game. The game will be "Caribbean Stud Poker" and he is betting an average of $100 per hand for 4 hrs. The house edge is (an appalling) 3.5% Hands per hour I will use 100 for this example.
This sucker wants to eat at a gourmet restaurant and is estimating that he and his date will need at least $100 to do so (tips are never covered). He also wants a limo to ferry him home and impress his companion.
$100 per hand times 4 hours at 100 hands per hour times 3.5% times 24% computes as follows:
$100 x 400 x 3.5% x 24% = $336
He and his wife enjoy a gourmet dinner and drink "Dom Perignon" Champagne, [although they are not getting "Kristal" Champagne.]
Gee I wish Flash would use a normal color & font. It is quite disturbing to the eye.
To give you an example at Mo-Sun:
I'll play 10 hour sessions with spreads from $15-$200+. In one session I'll receive approx. 150 points ($150-$200.) After about 5 visits at this spread, they offer rooms at $39. Sunday-Thurs. Fri & Sat if available 49.00. The comp points can be used in any store, restaurant, etc. at the casino, so you can use it towards the room, food, etc..
My wife plays $1.00 slots for 10hour sessions and she receives $500-600 in credits, after 5-10 visits, she became a member of their top tiered player club, Sagamore and then the next one (unadvertised) is Sachem, and get unlimited free rooms anytime. She gets a New Coach bag on every visit.
BJ players get the short end of the stick when it comes to comps.
Cant tell you in detail about MGM, only started playing there recently.
BJC
To give you an example at Mo-Sun:
I'll play 10 hour sessions with spreads from $15-$200+. In one session I'll receive approx. 150 points ($150-$200.) After about 5 visits at this spread, they offer rooms at $39. Sunday-Thurs. Fri & Sat if available 49.00. The comp points can be used in any store, restaurant, etc. at the casino, so you can use it towards the room, food, etc..
My wife plays $1.00 slots for 10hour sessions and she receives $500-600 in credits, after 5-10 visits, she became a member of their top tiered player club, Sagamore and then the next one (unadvertised) is Sachem, and get unlimited free rooms anytime. She gets a New Coach bag on every visit.
BJ players get the short end of the stick when it comes to comps.
Cant tell you in detail about MGM, only started playing there recently.
BJC
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Fox' Comps
Speaking not in general, but in relation to my own recent Comp' Experiences at Foxwoods,
I can say that the comps at my level are quite good.
I always have free rooms waiting for me, and tons of free merchandise for the asking.
My level of play is roughly double yours.
Note: I do NOT have the cost of rooms (and some shows) deducted from my account.
There is an ever-present danger for newbies being lured into wagering at higher stakes and/or for excess hours in order to be treated better.
In most cases they will lose many thousands of dollars more than they will recoup in comp's.
Speaking not in general, but in relation to my own recent Comp' Experiences at Foxwoods,
I can say that the comps at my level are quite good.
I always have free rooms waiting for me, and tons of free merchandise for the asking.
My level of play is roughly double yours.
Note: I do NOT have the cost of rooms (and some shows) deducted from my account.
There is an ever-present danger for newbies being lured into wagering at higher stakes and/or for excess hours in order to be treated better.
In most cases they will lose many thousands of dollars more than they will recoup in comp's.
Putting Out the Flames before they get out of hand.
Some people are unhappy to post on forums without "flaming" others - under cover of internet anonymity.
If someone posts: "I just wish he'd offer good info,instead of the misinformation he posts" s/he is required to state just what I have posted that was incorrect.
To criticize without supporting evidence is simply mean-spirited; and if I am in error, I need the opportunity to apologize/edit/correct/recant etc.
p.s. Please forgive the (intentional) mixed metaphor in the post title. :laugh:
p.p.s. Is this typeface small enough for all of you eagle-eyed youngsters ?
Some people are unhappy to post on forums without "flaming" others - under cover of internet anonymity.
If someone posts: "I just wish he'd offer good info,instead of the misinformation he posts" s/he is required to state just what I have posted that was incorrect.
To criticize without supporting evidence is simply mean-spirited; and if I am in error, I need the opportunity to apologize/edit/correct/recant etc.
p.s. Please forgive the (intentional) mixed metaphor in the post title. :laugh:
p.p.s. Is this typeface small enough for all of you eagle-eyed youngsters ?
What I'm getting at is: if you only place a bet immediately before and immediately after the shuffle, you are only placing two bets. But you are being rated for all the time it takes to shuffle.
So let's say it takes 5 minutes, and you have to play 2 hands. That's only 24 hands per hour of being rated. Your ratio of comps to expected loss will be double or triple that of playing straight.
So let's say it takes 5 minutes, and you have to play 2 hands. That's only 24 hands per hour of being rated. Your ratio of comps to expected loss will be double or triple that of playing straight.
No what you do is, when u first sit down, buy in for as much as u can so you look like a high roller. Then the pitboss usually checks what your bet is ont he first hand to determine your average bet so make your first bet big. After he checks, you can lower it to what you're comfortable with. Then when you have a really big bet out, stand up and say comeon (dealer's name) give me a blackjack, I need it and when you win the hand, scream out YESSS!!!. Then when you see the pitboss looking at you, ask him or her if you should bet it all on the next hand (so that they think you're a crazy maniac type bettor). While this may bring a little more heat, at least they'll be thinking you're a high roller and will be more likely to mark that in their system.
What you are suggesting is pretty impractical, in the real world. You'd end up wasting somewhere around two thirds of your time not being rated at all, no? Six hours of standing around to perhaps get two hours of rated play, and I think it would be worse than that.Throw in the other negatives I suggested and I'd give it a thumbs down. A B+ for concept, but a D for practicality.
"SD vs 8D. In 8D, you'd be making 8X as many bets than in SD"
shadroch:
You said: "SD vs 8D. In 8D, you'd be making 8X as many bets than in SD, no? Or am I misunderstanding yout posit?"
Well, it depends on how many players are at the table.
Lets say that you are playing heads up at an 8 decker with 1 deck cut off.
That leaves 7 decks of 52 cards or a total of 364 cards. On average a BJ hand consumes 2.7 cards so each round heads-up will deplete the shoe by 5.4 cards. Thus you would play 67 rounds (or hands). If a Single decker heads up were 67 divided by 8 you'd get to play 8 hands. BUT 8 hands consumes 8 x 5.5 = 44 cards and that would mean that you were dealt all but 8 cards. Actually 7 after the burn card. Unlikely but certainly possible.
NOW lets change the scenario to something more realistically commonplace.
Now it is Single Deck and there is the dealer, you, and 2 others at the table. A TOTAL OF 4 HANDS DEALT PER ROUND. Each round will (on average) deplete 11 cards. You COULD (theoretically) see 4 rounds from the dealer at SINGLE DECK. In reality of course you will see 2 or at the most 3 rounds.
But at the EIGHT DECKER what happens? Will it be that 4 rounds times 8 for 32 rounds? Hmm. We divide 364 cards by 10.8 We get 34 rounds.
Conclusion. Yes, without 'splitting hairs', you are (technically) correct; although casinos do not deal Single Deck as well as they "could" unless you are playing with restrictive rules such as is found in Northern Nevada, or you are foolishly playing a game that pays 6/5 on BJ's or you are playing "Super Fun 21" So to be perfectly pragmatic about this - in the real world the fewer the number of decks the more protective of the games the casinos are.
shadroch:
You said: "SD vs 8D. In 8D, you'd be making 8X as many bets than in SD, no? Or am I misunderstanding yout posit?"
Well, it depends on how many players are at the table.
Lets say that you are playing heads up at an 8 decker with 1 deck cut off.
That leaves 7 decks of 52 cards or a total of 364 cards. On average a BJ hand consumes 2.7 cards so each round heads-up will deplete the shoe by 5.4 cards. Thus you would play 67 rounds (or hands). If a Single decker heads up were 67 divided by 8 you'd get to play 8 hands. BUT 8 hands consumes 8 x 5.5 = 44 cards and that would mean that you were dealt all but 8 cards. Actually 7 after the burn card. Unlikely but certainly possible.
NOW lets change the scenario to something more realistically commonplace.
Now it is Single Deck and there is the dealer, you, and 2 others at the table. A TOTAL OF 4 HANDS DEALT PER ROUND. Each round will (on average) deplete 11 cards. You COULD (theoretically) see 4 rounds from the dealer at SINGLE DECK. In reality of course you will see 2 or at the most 3 rounds.
But at the EIGHT DECKER what happens? Will it be that 4 rounds times 8 for 32 rounds? Hmm. We divide 364 cards by 10.8 We get 34 rounds.
Conclusion. Yes, without 'splitting hairs', you are (technically) correct; although casinos do not deal Single Deck as well as they "could" unless you are playing with restrictive rules such as is found in Northern Nevada, or you are foolishly playing a game that pays 6/5 on BJ's or you are playing "Super Fun 21" So to be perfectly pragmatic about this - in the real world the fewer the number of decks the more protective of the games the casinos are.