I used to play blackjack up here in canada until I realized that the csm are setting up the cards for the house. It can't just be coincidence that for about the last 50 times I've watched these tables not betting any of my own money just watching other players I honestly haven't seen a winning table.Maybe one or two tops.That technology they have is amazing.When I first clued in I thought I might be able to beat the machine by going against basic strategy. I played the last two anchor positions and stayed on 13's and higher and hit 12's and 13's against a bust card.The machine obviously is expecting everyone to hit everything up to a 16 at least and stay with12 and over against the bust.I did have a couple of ok days.Probably the best two runs I had witnessed with these new machines.It is the only possible way to win in the short term however the machine is still too good in the long run, it gives you too many bad hands to overcome the bias so I quit it all together.They only have the csm up here in canada.I can see why.This is not sour grape because I'm a losing gambler.I haven't invested any money lately. It's so obvious to see when you are watching all the hands at the table and you know that the cards are rigged.Just sit back and watch how magically things happen for the casino.For starters they get beautiful starting cards probably 2-1 against the player.Watch how the players cards will match high cards with low cards and low cards with high cards always giving them vulnerable hands.Watch how when the dealers have an ace they won't make a blackjack unless there are a lot of big hands out there.That way when they make a 20 buy pulling a 9 they take everyones insurance as well.And watch how when people get there double downs they get a garbage rag card and the dealer makes his hand so they take twice as mutch.And no matter what you do the house always seems to have many back doors meaning if a player takes a hit or stands on a marginal hand it doesn't matter. Say the player has 12 and stands and the dealer has a 12 the next card is an 8 followed by a 9.Therefore if the player hits he gets a 20 and the dealer makes a 21 either way he loses.
continuous shuffle machines setting up the gambler
- Thread starter hoffer
- Start date
Uh, Not being rude, but your concept of CSM's are idiotic.
They in no way alter the outcome of the cards. No casino would use a machine to alter the outcome, this is asking for a law suit and to be crushed.
I thought I might be able to beat the machine by going against basic strategy.
If perfect basic strategy is a losing game, how the hell do you expect altering a computer-generated 2 billion + hand results will give you better odds to win. BASIC STRATEGY IS ALWAYS A LOSING GAME. Except for the very odd game, or incredible promo, you will lose money with basic strategy. You will just lose it a lot slower. Altering from it will increase that rate of loss.
CSM's continuously shuffle the cards of the game, so it is impossible to count. You are essentially always playing a shoe game, with the shoe starting from shuffle. You are playing with a house edge, you are going to lose in the long run.
I would recommend learning a lot about this game before throwing around wild, empty claims on a board about it.
Happy new years.
They in no way alter the outcome of the cards. No casino would use a machine to alter the outcome, this is asking for a law suit and to be crushed.
I thought I might be able to beat the machine by going against basic strategy.
If perfect basic strategy is a losing game, how the hell do you expect altering a computer-generated 2 billion + hand results will give you better odds to win. BASIC STRATEGY IS ALWAYS A LOSING GAME. Except for the very odd game, or incredible promo, you will lose money with basic strategy. You will just lose it a lot slower. Altering from it will increase that rate of loss.
CSM's continuously shuffle the cards of the game, so it is impossible to count. You are essentially always playing a shoe game, with the shoe starting from shuffle. You are playing with a house edge, you are going to lose in the long run.
I would recommend learning a lot about this game before throwing around wild, empty claims on a board about it.
Happy new years.
I have to disagree.
There are more important tools out there that read your ID, CC, and even players club card with out it ever leaving your wallet.
I would avoid them too for the same reason. I've played them winning and losing on a long drive home. It could be the idea of house cheating that's more bothersome than the box itself.
If the public is invited to have this, than it's possible the cards can be tracked with some sophisticated, yet available equipment.
http://www.infragardsfl.org/news_events-004.php (Archive copy)
I had a guy with an obvious wire hanging from his ear come up to me. Guess I was the only person without ID. He tapped me on the shoulder and the pit boss said I was that guy. The whole thing runs on static electricity.
And so begins a new year.
There are more important tools out there that read your ID, CC, and even players club card with out it ever leaving your wallet.
I would avoid them too for the same reason. I've played them winning and losing on a long drive home. It could be the idea of house cheating that's more bothersome than the box itself.
If the public is invited to have this, than it's possible the cards can be tracked with some sophisticated, yet available equipment.
http://www.infragardsfl.org/news_events-004.php (Archive copy)
I had a guy with an obvious wire hanging from his ear come up to me. Guess I was the only person without ID. He tapped me on the shoulder and the pit boss said I was that guy. The whole thing runs on static electricity.
And so begins a new year.
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The only affect you are seeing with CSMs is that they speed up the game so ploppies can lose their money twice as fast. Anything else is Voodoo.
But that actually works in the general playing population's favor in that A) most players invoke some sort of Voodoo in explaining results and therefore won't play against CSMs and B) They may somewhat notice that their money is being taken that much faster and opt for a traditional shoe or hand-held game.
But that actually works in the general playing population's favor in that A) most players invoke some sort of Voodoo in explaining results and therefore won't play against CSMs and B) They may somewhat notice that their money is being taken that much faster and opt for a traditional shoe or hand-held game.
It would be possible for a CSM, or even an ASM, to "stack" the deck. I mean, the technology is there. But, heck. the technology is there for the house to cheat at every single game in the casino. What you have to ask yourself is, "Why would they?" What are there chances of detection, their risk of being discovered and hence the end of their existence? What casino in its right mind would opt for cheating when they already have a sure thing with the house edge. Maybe its slower, but it gets the job done. And if all the casinos flat out robbed all their customers, the customer base would soon dwindle to nothing. It is in the best interest of the casinos for the edge to work its science slowly, allowing the customer base to continually renew its futile assault on their coffers. This reality is not true for the small time cheating house. For example, I know a small operation at a country club that cheated its customers for years, until the fellow who ran the game died. Taking tens of thousands from millionaires is doable, and there is no gaming commission looking over your shoulder in a private club. It's always smart to be wary. Just look what happened in the online poker industry in recent years.
I reckon that by the very nature of their mechanism, and functionality, CSMs do cheat.
As I understand it, a RNG dictates whereabouts in the output hopper the ferris wheel will discharge a tray of cards. I don't know what capacity the output hopper has, but unless the design is such that a tray of cards can be placed at the very rear of the hopper it will mean that a certain number of cards are permanently cut out of play - ie, if the furthest to the rear a batch of cards can be inserted is 6 cards from the back of the hopper, it will mean that 6 cards will never see the light of day. If you applied the same dynamic to a shoe, ie removed 6 cards at random, that would constitute cheating and put an operator's licence at risk.
The question of course is whether this is the case? If it isn't, and the mechanisms can insert cards at the very rear of the hopper, then does it mean that the same applies to the other end? I think not, as there will be a furthest forward point, and any cards in front of this will be the next to come out, regardless of what happens to the rest of the cards in the machine. This is what would make up part of the latency in reinserted cards being dealt back out again.
I discussed my theory once with a dealer (on a roulette table) and why I wouldn't play CSMs. He commented that it was just a theory and I couldn't prove it. I responded by saying that he couldn't prove it didn't happen, unless of course the house was willing to open one up and for us to watch it for as long as it took to see a slug of cards being discharged at the back of the hopper. Needless to say that didn't happen.
A further question would be that if there was only one deck in the machine (for 3CP), then this effect, if it exists, would profoundly affect the odds of different cards appearing? If say, two six cards were at the rear of the hopper and never, or only rarely, came out this would have a profound effect on the HE as the chance of a 3 x six hand would be nil or virtually nil?
It's the one thing I would investigate if I could have access to a 1-2-6. If it turned out that it was indeed the case, it would mean that every casino on the planet that used a 1-2-6 would be cheating their patrons. Heavy stuff.
As I understand it, a RNG dictates whereabouts in the output hopper the ferris wheel will discharge a tray of cards. I don't know what capacity the output hopper has, but unless the design is such that a tray of cards can be placed at the very rear of the hopper it will mean that a certain number of cards are permanently cut out of play - ie, if the furthest to the rear a batch of cards can be inserted is 6 cards from the back of the hopper, it will mean that 6 cards will never see the light of day. If you applied the same dynamic to a shoe, ie removed 6 cards at random, that would constitute cheating and put an operator's licence at risk.
The question of course is whether this is the case? If it isn't, and the mechanisms can insert cards at the very rear of the hopper, then does it mean that the same applies to the other end? I think not, as there will be a furthest forward point, and any cards in front of this will be the next to come out, regardless of what happens to the rest of the cards in the machine. This is what would make up part of the latency in reinserted cards being dealt back out again.
I discussed my theory once with a dealer (on a roulette table) and why I wouldn't play CSMs. He commented that it was just a theory and I couldn't prove it. I responded by saying that he couldn't prove it didn't happen, unless of course the house was willing to open one up and for us to watch it for as long as it took to see a slug of cards being discharged at the back of the hopper. Needless to say that didn't happen.
A further question would be that if there was only one deck in the machine (for 3CP), then this effect, if it exists, would profoundly affect the odds of different cards appearing? If say, two six cards were at the rear of the hopper and never, or only rarely, came out this would have a profound effect on the HE as the chance of a 3 x six hand would be nil or virtually nil?
It's the one thing I would investigate if I could have access to a 1-2-6. If it turned out that it was indeed the case, it would mean that every casino on the planet that used a 1-2-6 would be cheating their patrons. Heavy stuff.
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That's funny. I started out flat betting against CSMs and did quite well, making money about 2/3 of the time. So then I decided to take up counting and playing shoe games...and have proceeded to lose my shirt ever since! Oh I've won money on a few occasions, but I've lost a significant amount of money 5 consecutive times, and on 3 of these occasions I've lost every single hand when I bet more than 2 units. So I guess the casinos must be setting up the shoes against the gambler.