Counting styles and Indices...

[gothic]

Probably an age-old question, but will the Illustrious 18 work with another counting system like Hi-Opt I (or II)? I learned Hi-Lo first (like many '21' fans did) and then later Hi-Opt and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake thinking that the index plays would still work. Any insight? Again, I know it's probably been asked but I have a crap-slow computer and can't search around too much without some error, so... help me out?

Thanks much!

Gothic

 

[revrac]

Probably an age-old question, but will the Illustrious 18 work with another counting system like Hi-Opt I (or II)? I learned Hi-Lo first (like many '21' fans did) and then later Hi-Opt and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake thinking that the index plays would still work. Any insight? Again, I know it's probably been asked but I have a crap-slow computer and can't search around too much without some error, so... help me out?

Thanks much!

Gothic

I'm not familiar with Hi-Opt values but you would definitely still want to be using I18; however, the index points will probably be different than they are when using hi-lo...someone with more experience with hi-opt may be able to point you to a reliable source for the values.

 

[gothic]

Wow, cool!

That's much better than nothing-at-all! So the points (or counts) at which a player would choose to deviate from BS would slightly differ with a different counting system? That makes sense, and even if it isn't different, the logic is still seemingly good enough, and that gets my cogs turnin' right proper, ha ha! Thanks for such a hasty reply. Be in touch,

Gothic

 

[kewljason]

The indicies will be slightly different for hi-opt 1, although you can't get into too much trouble using the same indices, but Hi-opt 2 will be significantly different. If you are playing hi-opt 1, can I ask if you are using an ace side count? If you are not, you have actually downgraded to an inferior count.

 

[gothic]

hmmm

Mr. kewl, no I don't keep an ace side count... I know the concept and using my feet to count 1-8 aces played/remaining, but I had no idea I down-graded! Wow thanks for your reply.

Okay, I forgot to mention it's SD I'm playin, so that might make a difference. Right now I'm just playing Hi-LO with basic indices tryin to conquer an unsuspecting SD game.

Gothic

 

[kewljason]

Mr. kewl, no I don't keep an ace side count... I know the concept and using my feet to count 1-8 aces played/remaining, but I had no idea I down-graded! Wow thanks for your reply.

Okay, I forgot to mention it's SD I'm playin, so that might make a difference. Right now I'm just playing Hi-LO with basic indices tryin to conquer an unsuspecting SD game.

Gothic

Hi-opt 1 is basically the same as hi-lo, except you dont account for aces and 2's. Aces are the most important card in the deck (because of the 150% BJ payout), so if you are not side counting or accounting for them in some way you are playing a weaker count. If you don't plan to incorporate an ace side count at some point, or move up to Hi-opt2, I would stick with hi-lo, but that's just a personal opinion.

BTW.. thank you for toning down your 'gothic' tongue. lol And welcome to the board.

add-on: I didn't see the part about playing exclusively single deck. Hi-lo is not the best choice for playing exclusively single deck, although still adequate, where playing efficency does become more important, so hi-opt is not a bad choice. Since there is only 4 aces to side count, you might consider this.

 

[gothic]

...

Heh heh, sounds like you know your stuff! Thanks for your insight kewljason, hope to read your posts in the future.

Gothic

 

[tthree]

Hilo has an excellent BC which is more important in shoe games . Hiopt has a high PE and IC. PE is more important in pitch games(1 or 2 deck). Either Hiopt system with ace side count is best in all situations since it has best BC, PE and IC. Shoe with no ace side HILO is probably your best choice. HIOPT probably is best for pitch games.

 

[tthree]

Hilo has an excellent BC which is more important in shoe games. Hiopt has a high PE and IC. PE is more important in pitch games(1 or 2 deck). Either Hiopt system with ace side count is best in all situations since it has best BC, PE and IC. Shoe with no ace side HILO is probably your best choice. HIOPT probably is best for pitch games.

Indices vary from system to system. You really should get the correct indices for what you intend to play. Hiopt indices are important if you play Hiopt with no ace side. Its strength is the PE so dont give that back with the wrong indices.

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Probably an age-old question, but will the Illustrious 18 work with another counting system like Hi-Opt I (or II)? I learned Hi-Lo first (like many '21' fans did) and then later Hi-Opt and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake thinking that the index plays would still work. Any insight? Again, I know it's probably been asked but I have a crap-slow computer and can't search around too much without some error, so... help me out?

Thanks much!

Gothic

I want to share a Zen parable that I think relates. Once there was a caterpillar crawling alone happily. A wise owl sat in a tree above the caterpillar's path. He looked down and asked "how do you ever know which leg to move next?" At that point the caterpillar tried to answer, and quickly became paralyzed. He could not walk at all.

Sounds like analysis paralysis is affecting you.

 

[Gamblor]

I want to share a Zen parable that I think relates. Once there was a caterpillar crawling alone happily. A wise owl sat in a tree above the caterpillar's path. He looked down and asked "how do you ever know which leg to move next?" At that point the caterpillar tried to answer, and quickly became paralyzed. He could not walk at all.

Sounds like analysis paralysis is affecting you.

Yeah some of these questions especially by newbs are quite tiresome and funny. Who the f*** cares if Hi Opt 90 is better than Low Opt 27 at DD of 6 deck game with 68.9% penetration when its partly cloudy with a 33% chance of rain. And don't get me started about optimal bet spreads :laugh:

 

[christopher1]

people who are spending countless hours trying to learn a system that they plan to use for the rest of their lives care...

sadly it really doesn't make all that much of a difference, it sounds like the OP is worried about the complexity of a sidecount so my thoughts would be to stick to a more basic count, atleast for now. any advantage gained would probably be overshadowed by mistakes

 

[Severity8]

I always thought of a counting system as a fix'er up'er project you start out with something and then through trail and error and constant tweaking you shape it into what it is that you really were trying to do in the first place, as you become more comfortable with your style you start adding complexity to it whether that be a tougher count or another style of AP to your arsenal. JMHO.

Sev~

 

[bjcount]

Probably an age-old question, but will the Illustrious 18 work with another counting system like Hi-Opt I (or II)? I learned Hi-Lo first (like many '21' fans did) and then later Hi-Opt and wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake thinking that the index plays would still work. Any insight? Again, I know it's probably been asked but I have a crap-slow computer and can't search around too much without some error, so... help me out?

Thanks much!

Gothic

I'm not sure anyone addressed the OP's question unless I missed it but:

The I18 and Fab4 have nothing to do with the counting strategy your using. The I-18 are the most valuable index plays out of the many card combinations/index plays possible.

Providing you use the proper index value for your counting strategy, the importance and value of those 18 hand combinations change vey slightly.

BJC