Counting system for Royal Match side bet.

[meteomonk]

Last night while playing at my local casinos 6 deck shoe game. I began to think about the royal match side bet, something I hadn't put much thought into the dozens of other trips I have made to the casino. As a girl placed $2 in the side bet spot and got paid $100!!

I have been able to find little about systems for royal match side bet advantage play. but as far as I can tell this would be one of the better odds....6 decks (apparently for matching suits more decks is better?), Royal suit match pays 50:1, and any other match will pay 2:1. I'm going to investigate tonight about any other payouts and if royal match includes aces or tens.

The only article I could find about advantage play for this bet was here
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/royalmatch.htm
its called the davies system, he explains everything but the system!!! does anyone have access to this system, or any other strategys such as simply making this bet a certain count (I use KO), or would counting suits have to come into play?

Thank you for your input! this is my first forum post, i'm at around 100 hours counting, quite excited.

 

[meteomonk]

Okay, I thought I would contribute some newly discovered research and more questions....

In a 1993 book by stanford wong called blackjack secrets he claimed that a royal match side bet where a king-Queen combination paid 10:1 and any other match paid 3:1 the player had a 1.1% advantage on a 6-Deck game, and the house has a 3.8% advantage on single deck play.

I have read elsewhere that even on 6-deck games the house maintains over a 2% advantage on this particular side bet, is the trusty stanford wong simply pulling his answers out of thin air or what??? I can't imagine my casino would offer a side bet giving the player the advantage.

This also begs the question Is it more important on this side bet that all other matches pay 3:1 over 2:1 rather than royal matches paying 50:1 over 10:1 is this large multiplier simply a gimmick???

I am discovered a post around page 100 on this forum where somebody suggest counting blacks as +1 and reds as -1, and to determine a key count when it gets negative or positive.
So the scheme (atleast as far as I've worked it so far) would be to bet $5 when the Suit count becomes quite large or small, and perhaps $10 when the Suit count is special and when the regular running count is high. This will require keeping 2 numbers in mind, which is slow going at first but should get easier.

Perhaps eventually only a suit, king, and queen count would be required.

Anway Sorry about the long post, any thoughts??? Is this all a hopeless scheme??

 

[FLASH1296]

According to "The Big Book of Blackjack" by Arnold Snyder, this side bet cannot be beaten except in Single Deck games, with the proviso taht the payoffs must be 3-1 for 2 suited cards and 10-1 for a Suited Ace-King; and that if those odds are 3-2 and 25-1 the game is unbeatable.

Snyder devotes six pages (pp. 199-204) to this side bet in "The Big Book of Blackjack"

Incidentally, this subject not withstanding , the book is highly recommended.

 

[meteomonk]

Ahh Thank you! These odds however are 2:1 and 50:1 rather than 3:2 and 25:1, perhaps he didn't factor in for this pay format? or perhaps wishful thinking on my part.

Everywhere I have read has said that your odds are significantly better in more decks per shoe, perhaps it is easier to get an advantage counting single deck?
I wonder when he says beatable if he is referencing counting both suits and running count, then creating a royal match bet spread.

Thanks for the book reference! I am very curious what is has to say on those six pages..

but what did you mean incidentally the subject is not withstanding?

 

[FLASH1296]

"The Wizard of Odds" on the Royal Match side bet.

I trust Arnold Snyder, but in a case like this I would check with Michael Shakleford
A.K.A. - "The Wizard of Odds" - A HIGHLY respected casino consultant-gambler-mathematician.

Go To:

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix8.html#royalmatch


p.s. I must apologize for the archaic language. When I said "Incidentally, this subject not withstanding, the book is highly recommended." that is an old-fashioned way of saying that with the subject of this side-bet completely aside, the book is (otherwise still) recommended.

 

[ortango]

However, be careful. The only time I've been backed off was because of this dang side bet. I hit 3 out of 4 hands in a row, including the 25 to 1. Shift manager came down and took my bet out of the circle.

 

[zengrifter]

I have been able to find little about systems for royal match side bet advantage play. but as far as I can tell this would be one of the better odds....6 decks (apparently for matching suits more decks is better?), Royal suit match pays 50:1, and any other match will pay 2:1. I'm going to investigate tonight about any other payouts and if royal match includes aces or tens.

This is not the easy one to beat - and tghe easy one is not easy. zg

 

[meteomonk]

Ahh thank you again!! I used the wonderful tables on the wizard of odds site to calculate the house advantage on a 6-deck shoe with the payout system that i'm playing, it looks slightly worse than version 1 at about 85% Return on a 1 deck game. It was very interesting to see that your odds of scoring the royal match are about 3 in 1,000, I asked the pit boss at my casino and he said they didn't have that information, isn't that illegal?

Well it looks like the general suit match payout is the all important one.
that 50:1 number sure works well to put dollar signs in the eyes of gamblers though, although the odds are still worse. obviously the people upstairs know what their doing.

YET, I am extremely curious if there are any numbers out there as to the probability and house advantage on various royal match games when counting. First, People are referencing "beating" the game, but i'm curious what everyones vision of that system would be, is it based on running count and suit count like i mentioned? is this the professionals idea of "beating" a royal match bet? For although the house may have a 6% advantage on one game, perhaps when the KO running count is 12 and the suit count is -8 the player will have an advantage of X%. Its just frusterating, because any professional sites i've read only mention different formats and house advantages of royal match but not how to beat it, the million dollar question is..do they not mention beating royal match because it would include difficult queen, king, and suit running counts, or its simply not possible?

It would add a whole new plethora of interest to me, since I've gotten quite good with the ko system, i would like to begin practicing systems specific to situations like the zen system for single deck, and for casino traveling what fun it would be to have a book of how to beat side games.

Thanks for the interest everybody:cool2: