Crowns latest challenge! RFID

[RingyDingy]

Crown to introduce RFID chips.

Seems to be focussed around the counterfeit issues they have, given they have been taken for more rides than Paris Hilton.

It will be curious to see if they begin to introduce this as a measure of rating play or not.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/crown-to-replace-200-million-in-gambling-chips/story-e6frf7jo-1225771698292

Sounds like a challenge to me :laugh:

Question for the insiders - was this forced upon them by insurers?

 

[Katweezel]

Crown to introduce RFID chips.

Seems to be focussed around the counterfeit issues they have, given they have been taken for more rides than Paris Hilton.

It will be curious to see if they begin to introduce this as a measure of rating play or not.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/crown-to-replace-200-million-in-gambling-chips/story-e6frf7jo-1225771698292

Sounds like a challenge to me :laugh:

Question for the insiders - was this forced upon them by insurers?

Yeah, right Ringy. Crown thinks these new RFID chips are 'uncopyable.' They are probably correct, for a while. But their faith fails to take into account the ingenuity of the criminal mind when it turns its considerable talent to counterfeiting stuff. Time moves on, crims evolve, and still we are stuck with Crown and... James.

I've avoided the joint for quite a while. Are they still throwing drunks and card counters in the river?

 

[johndoe]

RFID is worse

RFID chips aren't very hard to duplicate, it's something many capable (engineering) college kids can do. You can be sure that criminals can do so to.

What makes them worse is that they give a false sense of security to the casino, and due to their reliance on "unbreakable" RFID's, they'll slack in other areas of security.

 

[Katweezel]

Trend: go with the flow

RFID chips aren't very hard to duplicate, it's something many capable (engineering) college kids can do. You can be sure that criminals can do so to.

What makes them worse is that they give a false sense of security to the casino, and due to their reliance on "unbreakable" RFID's, they'll slack in other areas of security.

OK, but when you have a monopoly casino in a big city and the nearest casino is in another time zone or so far North it's in another galaxy, you are your own boss, and hopefully your own worst enemy. (The executive branch of this particular casino has a history of being exactly that: their own worst enemy.)

Down under, in recent years there has been a trend to lessen the number of table games in favor of machines. For example, Jupiters on the Gold Coast used to have three long lines of table games on the main floor. They made that two lines; of mini baccarat, carnival games and CSM-only blackjack. The extra space is now taken up by more slots... (set on 14%HE.)

This country has a problem with gambling. Last year punters lost around $8Billion on slots alone. @ about $30 week for every man, woman and child, you could say from those figures that Aussies are close to the dumbest gamblers on the planet. If you think that would probably cause a lot of social dislocation and strife, you would be correct. The two parties that benefit are partners in the crime: casinos and state governments. Each party is addicted to the bulk flow of easy cash, and each compliment the other's greed... Meanwhile, the golden cash cow that is slots, keeps on keeping on.

But it's not all doom and gloom for blackjack players. Anyone can get in their HR (high limit) room if you turn up with ten grand cash, look reasonable, are well-dressed, don't slur your words and show ID with a photo that looks something like you. That gets you a ticket to play with 6 or 8-deck hand-shuffled shoes with ordinary rules and free booze. But if they decide you count cards, you are outta there quick smart pal, with your papers stamped IN RED: DON'T LET THIS CHEATING MOFU IN HERE EVER AGAIN... HE COUNTS CARDS! But not to worry, there is another casino across the street, right? Nope. This ain't Nevada. The next nearest one is only 4.5 million light years away.

I wonder if there is a world-wide trend away from table games, in favor of machines?

 

[UK-21]

A sad state of affairs. I have a young relative down under who is currently learning to count the cards, but there doesn't seem to be too many opportunities to play a shoe game without having $000s in his pocket.

Look's like some countries are a bit of a no-no for APs. Germany is one - all of the casinos are run by one chain who use CSM on all of the BJ tables. Even the famous casino in Baden-Baden uses the bloody things. Same in Greece, where it's a regulatory requirement that CSMs are used on all table card games. We seem to be reasonably we off in the UK then?

 

[Katweezel]

A sad state of affairs. I have a young relative down under who is currently learning to count the cards, but there doesn't seem to be too many opportunities to play a shoe game without having $000s in his pocket.

Look's like some countries are a bit of a no-no for APs. Germany is one - all of the casinos are run by one chain who use CSM on all of the BJ tables. Even the famous casino in Baden-Baden uses the bloody things. Same in Greece, where it's a regulatory requirement that CSMs are used on all table card games. We seem to be reasonably we off in the UK then?

You must be very BJ-well off in the UK Newb, seeing as so few of your countrymen (or countrywomen) seem to be interested in saying anything much about it here... BTW, have you heard if any Blackjack gets played in Ireland? Don't hear much about Eire, to be sure, to be sure. Maybe Shadroch knows something?

So the UK is doin OK BJ-wise... Could this have anything to do with England as a Royalist Democracy? God save the Queen!

 

[UK-21]

No, not at all. It's down to two things:-

The proscribed ruleset as laid down by the UK Gambling Commission that all licenced operators are obliged to follow - no altering the payouts to 6:5 or playing H17 here mate . . . yet. :grin:

The largest casino chain (Gala) not using CSMs on their table games, which I suspect is simply a cost issue. At around £1K a month each to lease (so I'm told) switching over to them will take a significant chunk out of the profits for each outlet - on looking at Gala Corals accounts for last year I reckon the switch could hit them for up to 20% on a unit's profitability, dependent on the number of tables they have to cover of course. And that doesn't take into account any loss in revenue from those regular BJ players who just wouldn't play them for whatever reason. What would the cost/benefits be for spending all of that extra money?

And despite what some of the board's US contributors may say, I can't see that the "insure naturals only rule" we have in the UK is any more disadvantageous to someone who counts than H17, at an additiona 0.21% on the HE, is.

So, things could certainly be worse. Quantas anyone ?

 

[Katweezel]

No, not at all. It's down to two things:-

The proscribed ruleset as laid down by the UK Gambling Commission that all licenced operators are obliged to follow - no altering the payouts to 6:5 or playing H17 here mate . . . yet. :grin:

The largest casino chain (Gala) not using CSMs on their table games, which I suspect is simply a cost issue. At around £1K a month each to lease (so I'm told) switching over to them will take a significant chunk out of the profits for each outlet - on looking at Gala Corals accounts for last year I reckon the switch could hit them for up to 20% on a unit's profitability, dependent on the number of tables they have to cover of course. And that doesn't take into account any loss in revenue from those regular BJ players who just wouldn't play them for whatever reason. What would the cost/benefits be for spending all of that extra money?

And despite what some of the board's US contributors may say, I can't see that the "insure naturals only rule" we have in the UK is any more disadvantageous to someone who counts than H17, at an additiona 0.21% on the HE, is.

So, things could certainly be worse. Quantas anyone ?

Look, I hate to nitpick Newb, but it's Qantas, which originally stood for Queensland And Northern Territory Air Service. (No 'U' there.) They eventually decided to paint kangaroos on them, to give them more, uh, furriness or something. Their only claim to fame is that they never had a major disaster... yet. So depending which direction your superstition leans, they are a very safe airline, or they are due. (Seeing as they now sub-let a fair bit of maintenance to third-world airports so as to cut costs, I'd stick with BA.)
Any news on Ireland?

 

[UK-21]

Some nice casinos in Dublin I'm told. Haven't got there myself yet though. I believe there was some info on one in a previous post in the Europe section of the board.

 

[Bradley Peterson]

I've been to Australia twice

The last time being about 7 years ago. That trip was to the Crown. At that time, is was fashionable for a counter (as well as safer) to back count on the main floor and just into shoes. I was told that in order for one to be barred at the time, that the casino had to compile at least 3 tapes of ones play and have them submitted and approved by some board or comission before one could be barred from blackjack. Is that still the case?

 

[RingyDingy]

ah the good ol days.....

The last time being about 7 years ago. That trip was to the Crown. At that time, is was fashionable for a counter (as well as safer) to back count on the main floor and just into shoes. I was told that in order for one to be barred at the time, that the casino had to compile at least 3 tapes of ones play and have them submitted and approved by some board or comission before one could be barred from blackjack. Is that still the case?

Most certainly not, crown do not even need a legitimate reason to have your ear pulled and yanked out onto the street.

As for barring you from the casino they employ a one or two strikes policy based purely around you, your style and action.

First and the majority of the time they will ask you to play another game.
Secondly they will slap a barr on you.

One thing crown does do well, (and i do NOT mean to be racist in any way shape of form) if your a caucasian is to enforce that ban well.

Back on topic a bit, i look forward to Crowns attempt at RFID technology and I cant wait to interrogate it

hey Katz, fancy coming down for a "take james for a ride" party when it gets figured out?

 

[Katweezel]

Yarra for James

Most certainly not, crown do not even need a legitimate reason to have your ear pulled and yanked out onto the street.

As for barring you from the casino they employ a one or two strikes policy based purely around you, your style and action.

First and the majority of the time they will ask you to play another game.
Secondly they will slap a barr on you.

One thing crown does do well, (and i do NOT mean to be racist in any way shape of form) if your a caucasian is to enforce that ban well.

Back on topic a bit, i look forward to Crowns attempt at RFID technology and I cant wait to interrogate it

hey Katz, fancy coming down for a "take james for a ride" party when it gets figured out?

Yeah, love to mate! Up in Mahogany territory upstairs with 8 decks SHOES that are shuffled by a totally fallible human person. One who has all the lovable qualities that we all love in dealers: deals too fast, talks a lot of crap, unfocused, makes loads of dealer errors (our way, shhhh), sometimes accidentally flips the next dealer card over by mistake... that sort of stuff that all adds to the entertainment factor... (I hope James hasn't fired all them!) I been getting coached in AutoMonk's obnoxious drunk. I got the hick hillbilly down pat and am working on the total off-the-wall nut case. I won't say anything about a highly-superstitious fruit cake either...

I figure we can turn the tables on James, just to let him know he can't win ALL the time... I figure with us two only playing at a table up there, we can MONOPOLIZE the MONOPOLY. That would be nice.
Has James had you chucked in the river lately? Cheers mate. K

 

[Katweezel]

I was just thinking, Ringy; just say we made some big bucks up there and we got paid in Crown fake white chips... Then we get busted at the cage for having dud chips. Not that I don't trust Crown... (Well, nah, I don't trust em.) I figure what with his big investment in new chips, James probably has a stash of the old dud ones in a cupboard somewhere, just waiting for an opportunity... Know what I mean? I think we should give his white chips a big miss and insist on being paid in bulk $5000 and a few $500 chips. Make sense? Good. One step ahead of ya James ol buddy. Ol pal.

 

[RingyDingy]

I was just thinking, Ringy; just say we made some big bucks up there and we got paid in Crown fake white chips... Then we get busted at the cage for having dud chips. Not that I don't trust Crown... (Well, nah, I don't trust em.) I figure what with his big investment in new chips, James probably has a stash of the old dud ones in a cupboard somewhere, just waiting for an opportunity... Know what I mean? I think we should give his white chips a big miss and insist on being paid in bulk $5000 and a few $500 chips. Make sense? Good. One step ahead of ya James ol buddy. Ol pal.

A wise choice in chip denominations, given they have also had fake $5's and fake $100's too!

I saw a fake $100 it was pretty good, but under decent scruitiny was obviously fake.

Ive never had the pleasure of being chucked in the river, although im sure that would make for a good story in one of the papers, and a large portion of hush money being paid

There is a rumour circulating right now, from someone whom i trust that another few dealers were caught with thier fingers in the pie, one even went so far as to pay excess returns at a roulette table to friends, the story goes:
4 table square of roulette, table one, left corner, drunk idiot spills his chip pile all over the board just after the ball lands, creating one hell of a mess, ties up the video people, the bosses u name it, he of course gets turfed out, meanwhile the diagnally opposite table; 6 spins with payouts of all sorts of baloney, at least a few thousand bucks worth.

Anyways apparantly so the word on the streets goes, they did a random rewind and play check and hey presto.

Personally for me, i like the fact james got taken for a few grand, yay!, but there is nothing to be gained from plain old theft IMHO, i get my buzz not from taking his cash but the fact that you can beat them at thier own game

 

[Bradley Peterson]

Personally for me, i like the fact james got taken for a few grand, yay!, but there is nothing to be gained from plain old theft IMHO, i get my buzz not from taking his cash but the fact that you can beat them at thier own game

Cheers to that Mate!