DD spread

[Dopple]

From what I remember we only need a 4x spread to succeed at DD? If I am able to spread from 10 to 2 x 50 at TC6 where the max bet should occur in 6D according to what I have been told I would think that would be a good move if the house will tolerate it.

 

[Sonny]

From what I remember we only need a 4x spread to succeed at DD?

It completely depends on the penetration. In a 75%+ game a 1-4 spread will give you an advantage, although I think most players would try to spread more. If the penetration is bad then you might not have an advantage at all. The 1-10 spread you mention should work great if you can get away with it. Schlesinger's book has an entire chapter of charts that will show you the specific differences between different spreads at different penetraion levels.

-Sonny-

 

[moo321]

From what I remember we only need a 4x spread to succeed at DD? If I am able to spread from 10 to 2 x 50 at TC6 where the max bet should occur in 6D according to what I have been told I would think that would be a good move if the house will tolerate it.

I would actually recommend against adding a second hand for double deck. I certainly can't recommend a spread of less than 1-6 unless it's a really nice game you want to protect. I always spread 1-8 or more in double deck.

 

[tripsix]

Your spread's equivalent to a 1-6.666 spread.

So I had to reply. I agree with both of the above. You might have a VERY slight +ev with this spread IF you are dealt down to last 26 cards or less:cool2:. Sadly, depite the resemblance to my handle a minimum 1-8 spread, as suggested (got milk?) is the best advice for dd.
Most stores won't accept spreading to two hands at DD for long. My local ones consider it mid-shoe entry and don't allow it at all. To be complete, a $10 to 2X$60 spread would technically be a 1-8 spread but your likely to be backed off or shuffled up on. Due to spreading from 1 to 2 hands.
Good Luck!

 

[FLASH1296]

Simple Solutions: 4-1, 6-1, 8-1

Some of the posters in this spread are ignoring important variables.
All DD games are not the same. Hardly that ! Y M M V holds true.

Lets extrapolate to the logical extremes:

Game A pen' 50% H17 NDAS D10 using Hi-Lo
Game B pen' 75% S17 DAS DA2 using Hi-Opt II

Game A I'd be looking to employee an 8-1 spread.
Game B I'd be looking to employee an 4-1 spread.

From the logical extremes one can "synthesize" a solution:

In more common games I'd select a 4-1 spread.

 

[moo321]

So I had to reply. I agree with both of the above. You might have a VERY slight +ev with this spread IF you are dealt down to last 26 cards or less:cool2:. Sadly, depite the resemblance to my handle a minimum 1-8 spread, as suggested (got milk?) is the best advice for dd.
Most stores won't accept spreading to two hands at DD for long. My local ones consider it mid-shoe entry and don't allow it at all. To be complete, a $10 to 2X$60 spread would technically be a 1-8 spread but your likely to be backed off or shuffled up on. Due to spreading from 1 to 2 hands.
Good Luck!

This doesn't sound right at all. Almost every double deck game will yield some advantage at 1-4, and even a terrible game with yield an ok advantage with 1-6. Maybe not a great advantage, or a "professional" advantage, but you won't be losing money spreading 1-6 in even a bad 3:2 game.

 

[tripsix]

I sit corrected.

:cry:

In my area I only have a couple DD games. Flash is pretty close in his appraisal, which is the basis of my assesment.
Normally I don't comment on DD but it was a 1-6.666 spread, so please give me a little leeway.
Moo321 is a poster I would trust over myself. Although I am certain I've seen 1-8 spread as the magic # for DD. Upon review, I agree saying 1-8 minimum is not good advice at all locations.

Good Cards

 

[FLASH1296]

Erratum

In my recent post I made a nasty little typo.

The final line should read:

In more common games I'd select a 6-1 spread.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

DD play and spreads depend on a lot of things, probably more than any other number of decks. Always expect heat on a DD game, but unless the rules and pen are good you're going to have to hit it pretty hard to get any money out of it. Keep in mind most PC's will believe that a 2/1 game is more vulnerable than a 6/1 game.

 

[Jack_Black]

Are we sure about this guys? I was forced to use 1-4 one day, that is $100-$400 on a game cause I was getting too much heat for 1-8. I did great that session,(45 units) and have been using it ever since. NO HEAT whatsoever. this was a 50% pen game with good rules DAS, DOA, RS4. and just to make sure, I ran it through CVData and compared it to spreading with 1-10. the difference was minute, with the 1-10 being only slightly better. I can't remember, but I want to say that blackjack bluebook talks about 1-4 being acceptable for DD.

 

[Dopple]

From my perspective you could just be in a positve variance. I dont see how 1-4 could only be slightly better than 1-10, that just cant be.

Lets wait to hear from the pros.

 

[Jack_Black]

That's what I thought initially. I was just having a good laugh because of the irony of the casino's action that day. I was spreading too much and so the PCs were watching me like a hawk, asking me what I did for a living, would I like to sign up for the player's club, so I left. I came back the next day and spread 1-4 and actually made back much more than expected on a 1-10 spread, and without anyone bugging me!! I actually had the PCs cheering me on when I had a triple split and a double down.

But since that day, I only use 1-4, and I ran it through a billion hand simulator. I set the pen at 50% with dealer to dealer variances, and the results for a $10-$100 vs $25-$100 spread were $24.56/$23.22 win rates. Get this, spreading to 2 hands on >TC+6 made it $47.55!!!

I'm still testing other environment variables, ie, fixed cut card, 40% pen, and I've only used the 1-4 spread with 20 actual hours in a casino. but, it looks very promising, especially the no heat part! The only downside I've seen so far is that variance is wider in actual play. A whole lot wider than 1-10.

 

[moo321]

That's what I thought initially. I was just having a good laugh because of the irony of the casino's action that day. I was spreading too much and so the PCs were watching me like a hawk, asking me what I did for a living, would I like to sign up for the player's club, so I left. I came back the next day and spread 1-4 and actually made back much more than expected on a 1-10 spread, and without anyone bugging me!! I actually had the PCs cheering me on when I had a triple split and a double down.

But since that day, I only use 1-4, and I ran it through a billion hand simulator. I set the pen at 50% with dealer to dealer variances, and the results for a $10-$100 vs $25-$100 spread were $24.56/$23.22 win rates. Get this, spreading to 2 hands on >TC+6 made it $47.55!!!

I'm still testing other environment variables, ie, fixed cut card, 40% pen, and I've only used the 1-4 spread with 20 actual hours in a casino. but, it looks very promising, especially the no heat part! The only downside I've seen so far is that variance is wider in actual play. A whole lot wider than 1-10.

That game is still dogshit. Less than 1 unit an hour.

 

[Jack_Black]

$47.55 is not less than $25. Likewise $24.56 is not less than $10. The question I was answering was, is it possible to profit spreading 1-4. Yes. Is spreading to two hands a good idea in DD? Yes.

 

[FLASH1296]

Forewarned is forearmed.

Jack Black,

You said: "Is spreading to two hands a good idea in DD? Yes"

There is a mathematical answer and there is a pragmatic answer.

The correct answer is that it is a GOOD idea irrespective of the number of decks.

BUT it is really NOT a good idea, in the real world, where even

marginally vigilant Pit Critters know to closely monitor your

action when you spread to 2 hands.

 

[iCountNTrack]

A picture better than a thousand words

As the graph shows, a 1-4 spread is rather a poor one except at good penetrations.

 

[Jack_Black]

icount, thank you, what does the white line represent? also, what is the software you are using and is it available?