Dealer not allowing you to wong out on a DD game

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ninous26

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
I'm not sure if there is an etiquette on playing $25 min DD games in LV.. I told someone this story in the chat room a couple days ago.

I was playing a $25 min DD game in LV. I was at the table with one other player. New shuffle comes, and after 3 hands the count is a -8 with 5 aces gone. With two friends standing behind me I start to lean back and talk to them without placing a bet.. I stuck out my hand and waved back and forth in a "don't deal to me motion, I am sitting out". The dealer then says no you can't do that and starts shouting the PB's name which I'll leave out. I start talking to my friends loudly saying we should go and look for our other friend who has been missing for a couple of hours.. As I am talking the dealer keeps interrupting me so I finally get up stand away from the table and begin to "text my friend". The dealer then proceeds to stand there with her arms crossed and waited for me to finish so she can keep dealing. I felt bad for the other player since he was just sitting there quietly waiting so I played 1 last hand and left.


It was a lot worse than I am making it sound.. She was seriously making a scene by screaming out to the floor constantly trying to butt into my conversation and getting my attentions. I'm so sure she knew exactly what I was doing.

Is this something of the norm? I really wanted to take all my green without coloring up and pocketing them then proceed to flip her off but I kept my cool.
 
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MangoJ

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
How could she ever force you to bet ? Ask for a color up and leave. If she declines, just take the chips and leave.
 
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The Chaperone

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I've had a ploppy complain about me wonging out and a dealer complain about me wonging in (even not dealing me a hand), but I've never seen anything like this. You can do a lot of things, ranging from coloring *down* and taking all the chips off the table to telling her to **** off, but probably the best thing to do from a longevity standpoint is to just get up and leave looking confused.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#4
#4
ninous26 said:
I'm not sure if there is an etiquette on playing $25 min DD games in LV.. I told someone this story in the chat room a couple days ago.

I was playing a $25 min DD game in LV. I was at the table with one other player. New shuffle comes, and after 3 hands the count is a -8 with 5 aces gone. With two friends standing behind me I start to lean back and talk to them without placing a bet.. I stuck out my hand and waved back and forth in a "don't deal to me motion, I am sitting out". The dealer then says no you can't do that and starts shouting the PB's name which I'll leave out. I start talking to my friends loudly saying we should go and look for our other friend who has been missing for a couple of hours.. As I am talking the dealer keeps interrupting me so I finally get up stand away from the table and begin to "text my friend". The dealer then proceeds to stand there with her arms crossed and waited for me to finish so she can keep dealing. I felt bad for the other player since he was just sitting there quietly waiting so I played 1 last hand and left.


It was a lot worse than I am making it sound.. She was seriously making a scene by screaming out to the floor constantly trying to butt into my conversation and getting my attentions. I'm so sure she knew exactly what I was doing.

Is this something of the norm? I really wanted to take all my green without coloring up and pocketing them then proceed to flip her off but I kept my cool.
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Its unusual. But using a imaginary cell call would have alleviated it.
What was said when the PB arrived? zg
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
:confused: This does not make sense. Sounds like nothing more than a misunderstanding to me.

I'm thinking that maybe the dealer was TRYING to tell him that due to the "no mid-deck entry" rule he could not sit out and reenter until the shuffle. Either the dealer didn't communicate herself properly, or else the OP misunderstood her. Was it an Asian dealer? There are a great many Asian dealers that have very poor command of the English language. Maybe that's why she called the floor over?
 
T

tthree

Banned
#7
#7
Sucker said:
:confused: This does not make sense. Sounds like nothing more than a misunderstanding to me.

I'm thinking that maybe the dealer was TRYING to tell him that due to the "no mid-deck entry" rule he could not sit out and reenter until the shuffle. Either the dealer didn't communicate herself properly, or else the OP misunderstood her. Was it an Asian dealer? There are a great many Asian dealers that have very poor command of the English language. Maybe that's why she called the floor over?
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Nice deductive reasoning.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Unless they were trying to make a point.

I was playing once in AC and had 2 suits watching because of the bet size. I kept playing, count dropped, so I conveniently got a phone call. There was one other player at the table. Pit told dealer to wait until I was done. I came back, looked surprised and said, "Thanks for waiting, but I have to run. Wife needs me..."
 
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blackjackomaha

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Assuming it's a NMSE game, the dealer sounds confused. As others have said, you could have faked a phone call, headed towards the restroom, or given some other reason to leave the table and not play anymore.

Regardless of your action, the dealer should not have acted as described. Dealer was in the wrong.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Sorry, but I have to take the devil's advocate position here. The casino certainly has a right to not allow you to sit out a hand. Both for the exact reason that you wanted to sit out the hand (and this is more important in hand-held games) and because real-estate is expensive. Dealers can get fired without notice. If the dealers were just reminded of this rule, they aren't likely to let it slide. Had I been one of the other players, I would not be pissed at the dealer, but would be pissed at yet another person that thinks his relationship with his cell phone is more important than my time.

It's worth a shot to try to sit out a hand. But, by not immediately giving up when experiencing resistance, you made yourself stick out.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#11
#11
ninous26 said:
...
It was a lot worse than I am making it sound.. She was seriously making a scene by screaming out to the floor constantly trying to butt into my conversation and getting my attentions. I'm so sure she knew exactly what I was doing.

Is this something of the norm? I really wanted to take all my green without coloring up and pocketing them then proceed to flip her off but I kept my cool.
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Just say "I have to take a piss" and walk to the bathroom. You can upgrade from "piss" if her behavior continues.
 
R

RJT

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
QFIT said:
Sorry, but I have to take the devil's advocate position here. The casino certainly has a right to not allow you to sit out a hand. Both for the exact reason that you wanted to sit out the hand (and this is more important in hand-held games) and because real-estate is expensive. Dealers can get fired without notice. If the dealers were just reminded of this rule, they aren't likely to let it slide. Had I been one of the other players, I would not be pissed at the dealer, but would be pissed at yet another person that thinks his relationship with his cell phone is more important than my time.
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I know you're not trying to validate that argument, but that's like telling a bar patron he's going to have to move on because he's not sinking enough pints/hour. Any casino that starts ridgedly applying such a practice is going to chase off a fair amount of custom.

More importantly however, it's their rules that stops mobile phone use at the table, so when i have to step away to use my phone, that's a direct consequence of their behaviour. They don't have any right to make me socially uncomfortable simply for adhering to their rules.

RJT.
 
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M

Midwestern

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
the dealer wasnt FORCING you to bet though, was she?

under no circumstances should a patron be forced to continue playing if they don't want to.

now, having the APPEARANCE of being distracted, hoping to sit out, without directly saying that you are sitting out is somewhat disrespectful to other players who are trying to max their HPR.

i usually have no problem telling the dealer to deal me out for a few rounds if i ask politely.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Blue Efficacy said:
Just leave the damn table, itll still be there later..
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Quite right. And frankly, I'm not too keen on the guy in a bar that milks a beer for an hour while emptying every bowl of goodies in site. And seriously, when are people with bad cell-phone etiquette going to figure out how annoying they are?:)

But seriously, nothing wrong with trying to sit out a hand or so on occasion. But, the moment you experience any resistance, give up graciously and don’t blame the casino for not being stupid. Incidentally, if you are gracious, it might even work the next time. Because you won't look like one of them AH counters.:)
 
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ninous26

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Thanks for the replies fellas. To answer some questions;

Yes she was asian and had an accent. The PB was of from a middle eastern/border line european country. He kept on inferring on how sexy she was (she was ok at best). Funny the PB was so loose, he would dance and shake his body to the music.

No I was not forced to bet but she made it clear with her arms crossed that she would not continue to deal unless I jumped back in even though I made it clear by saying hold on I'll be back in a minute, just go ahead and play without me. During this whole fiasco the PB was too busy jiggling his shoulders and at the other end of the "floor", he never made it back to the table even with her shouting for him.

The reason I placed one more bet and left was because I felt as if I was on the spot.. I'm fairly new to being an AP and haven't really dealt with this type of situation before. I've always been allowed to wong in and out at will.. However this was in shoe games and not pitch games.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
Pitch games are certainly far more strict in this situation. Sitting out a hand in a shoe game generally makes little difference as the count doesn't budge much round-to-round. If we want pitch games to continue to exist, and not turn into frauds like 6:5 BJ (and yes I insist on calling 6:5 a fraud on the public), then we need to compromise.

Let me repeat one more time. 6:5 Blackjack is NOT Blackjack at all. It is a fraud. If they want to call it a new name without the word "Blackjack," that's fine. But, calling it Blackjack is fraudulent. (Did I make that clear enough.:))


OK, got that over with. See http://www.qfit.com/blackjackblog/?p=246 (Archive copy) for some more general comments on the subject of behavior in the casino.

Did I mention that 6:5 Blackjack is a fraud?
 
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ninous26

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
6:5 IS a fraud. My ploppy friend kept on insisting we play in the party pit so he can watch the girls but all the tables were 6:5.. "who cares???" he kept saying. I do.. when I get BJ hands I want $150 on my 100 dollar bet. Not 120.

6:5 is NOTHING but more casino advantage. I'd only play 6:5 if some other rule was changed like you receive half your bet back if dealer gets blackjack or something else ridiculous.
 
M

Midwest Player

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
Midwestern said:
the dealer wasnt FORCING you to bet though, was she?

under no circumstances should a patron be forced to continue playing if they don't want to.

now, having the APPEARANCE of being distracted, hoping to sit out, without directly saying that you are sitting out is somewhat disrespectful to other players who are trying to max their HPR.

i usually have no problem telling the dealer to deal me out for a few rounds if i ask politely.
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I was once playing blackjack and losing pretty bad. I was down to my last couple of chips and received a double down hand of 11. I think the dealer had a strong up card like a face card. I tossed the last few chips I had left out on the table and said double down for less. The dealer gave me a low card like a 3. Before the dealer could flip the hole card (it was a long time ago but I don't think the dealer flipped the hole card) the pit boss comes running over to the table and says the double down has to be at least the table min. You have to put more money out there. I say thats all the chips I have left. I said I would take back the double down. She says I can't do that. I have to put more money out there. I told her again thats all the chips I had left. Then she asks if I had any more money left in my wallet. That was the last straw for me. I said lady under no circumstances am I going to put more money out there. I said the dealer accepted my bet. He should of pushed it back if it wasn't correct before dealing the next card. I said you have two choices either accept the bet as is or let me take the double down back, but I not going to put more money out there. Again she asks are you sure you have no more money left. I said nothing. Of course I had more money in my wallet. Finally she tells the dealer to let it go.
 
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