Dealer's Blackjack vs. 21

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Bluest

Well-Known Member
Hi. Quick question please. I understand what happens when the dealer has BJ, but what if you have a blackjack, and the dealer makes a hand of 21? You still get paid for BJ right?
 
KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
I am sure you are talking real (felt) blackjack, but I played a few hands of one of those 5 seat electronic blackjack games this week got a blackjack, the dealer drew a 4 hand 21 and I pushed. :( THAT was my final hand on that game. lol You really gotta read the rules for these games now.
 
B

Bluest

Well-Known Member
KewlJ said:
I am sure you are talking real (felt) blackjack, but I played a few hands of one of those 5 seat electronic blackjack games this week got a blackjack, the dealer drew a 4 hand 21 and I pushed. :( THAT was my final hand on that game. lol You really gotta read the rules for these games now.
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KewlJ, do you think with Covid and the world going more virtual in general, there will eventually be online games with comparable EV to live in person casino?

How was this game, in general? Do you feel you could make money at it over time?

I'm also curious about withdrawing your winnings. I wish they would do Paypal, but it seems like a lot of them either pay in Bitcoin (I have not yet had the privilege to own a bitcoin, so not savvy about converting it), or charge a hefty fee to send you a check.
 
KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
KewlJ, do you think with Covid and the world going more virtual in general, there will eventually be online games with comparable EV to live in person casino?

How was this game, in general? Do you feel you could make money at it over time?
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I don't play online, so I have no idea about withdrawing your money. I was referring to the multi seat video screen blackjack games inside casinos.

The first generation of these games, Dealer Angel's by Aruze (the computerized dealers with big boobs) were countable, once it became known that the shuffle occurred when they switched dealers. Penetration was lousy though and you had to make sure the game wasn't set to 6:5. There was one at El Cortez that was playable for a small profit for a long time, but was replaced about a year ago. There is still one at SilverSevens, but it is set to 6:5. I mean would you play a regular blackjack game that was 6:5 and very shallow penetration?

So a couple years ago, most dealer Angle games began disappearing and were replaced by a similar 5 seat interblock game. To my knowledge these games are not countable, because the shuffle point is not as obvious.

Anyway, even before Covid appeared, I sort of felt these multi-seat video dealer games along with the stadium style blackjack games that were popping up, which use a live dealer for 20, 30, sometimes as many as 50 terminals, would begin to replace real felt blackjack games over the next few years, especially at lower limits. When Covid hit this year, I felt it would only speed up this transformation. And it has to some extent. Not really the 5 seat video games, but there are many stadium blackjack (and roulette) games that have been installed throughout Las Vegas. All the open Station casinos have a stadium blackjack section. Treasure Island has two stadium blackjack sections. A few other places that aren't coming to mind right now.

So last week, like I said, I ran into a new 5 seat video game that I hadn't seen before. So I checked to be sure it paid 3:2 and played a few hands just to check it out. Didn't take long before I got a blackjack and to my surprise the dealer drew a 4 card 21 and announced that it was a push. That is what you get for not reading the rules. :eek:
 
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Bluest

Well-Known Member
I see. Gotcha, and thank you. I get what you're saying abou tthe new games that replaced the Angel games (angel dealers with big breasts) were replaced... but the one you sat at and got the push, was that countable? Could you tell when they shuffled?
 
KewlJ

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
I see. Gotcha, and thank you. I get what you're saying abou tthe new games that replaced the Angel games (angel dealers with big breasts) were replaced... but the one you sat at and got the push, was that countable? Could you tell when they shuffled?
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I didn't see any indication of when the shuffle took place, but even if you did, a game pushing a blackjack with a dealer non blackjack 21 is a losing game. You aren't going to overcome that huge house edge with traditional card counting.
 
B

Bluest

Well-Known Member
But isn't it quite rare that you would both have those hands simultaneously anyway, and thus not affect EV much?
 
D

DSchles

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
But isn't it quite rare that you would both have those hands simultaneously anyway, and thus not affect EV much?
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Depends on what you call "quite rare." It occurs about once every 300 hands. But, if you lose 1.5 bets every 300 hands that's half a bet per hour. Can't afford to have that happen.

Don
 
M

MrFatCat

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
KewlJ, do you think with Covid and the world going more virtual in general, there will eventually be online games with comparable EV to live in person casino?

How was this game, in general? Do you feel you could make money at it over time?

I'm also curious about withdrawing your winnings. I wish they would do Paypal, but it seems like a lot of them either pay in Bitcoin (I have not yet had the privilege to own a bitcoin, so not savvy about converting it), or charge a hefty fee to send you a check.
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I think this is a different question from the one KJ answered -- online games are unlikely to be countable for a variety of reasons. The ones without live dealers are 8-deck shoe, shuffle every *hand* -- the ones with live dealers are hawked fairly well I believe, and I think might be something like 8-deck shoe, shuffle at 50%.

Even if an online casino put out a live dealer, shuffle at 75% product, I suspect they'd put in even the slightest of countermeasures (cap your spread at like 1-8, or if you spread higher during positive EV for the player consistently they'll just boot you). Borderline zero chance there's opportunities here.
 
B

Bluest

Well-Known Member
Quick question for you guys. Let's say you were alone at a table. Due to information about the hole card or for some other reason, you decide to stay at 14, or around there. When the dealer flips over her hole card, she's got 16. Does she still have to hit?
 
B

BoSox

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
Quick question for you guys. Let's say you were alone at a table. Due to information about the hole card or for some other reason, you decide to stay at 14, or around there. When the dealer flips over her hole card, she's got 16. Does she still have to hit?
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Yes, and it is written right on the felt.
 
C

Counting_Is_Fun

Well-Known Member
Bluest said:
Quick question for you guys. Let's say you were alone at a table. Due to information about the hole card or for some other reason, you decide to stay at 14, or around there. When the dealer flips over her hole card, she's got 16. Does she still have to hit?
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What the hell are you even talking about?
You are already thinking about hole carding...but you don't even know if the dealer hits 16?
Stop spamming the board with such dumb questions...buy a basic BJ book. Then come back.
 
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