Dear Atlantic City,

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#21
Jacob said:
You're missing the local news which reported that 3 18ish kids (from Camden's Ghetto) robbed, carjacked, & shot 2 Taj's "visitors." Nothing their parents can do when those kids are gangsters. Poverty is the root of crimes such as robbing, carjacking, murdering, etc in casino lands...:cry::sad::sad:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html
Yes, pretty f***ing sickening. Incidents and press like this costs the casinos more than if 10,000 card counters were to descend on AC. And they apparently completely ignored these highly suspicious criminals scouting out their casinos for victims, probably completely focused on the guy constantly wonging out betting reds.

Recall an incident in front of Caesars where a fist fight broke out, and someone was standing there for 10 minutes with a bloody nose. Not one security guard showed up. Makes you wonder what surveillance is exactly looking at. Or they probably just don't care what happens to their patrons.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#23
BookerPA said:
AC has a boardwalK!!! I don't believe you. Next you're going to tell me they have an ocean and a beach. :grin:
Is this some kind of conspiracy theory? Moderators! Re-route this thread to the Zen Zone! :laugh:
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#24
kewljason said:
Tarzan, the funny thing is that for several years, many players, myself included thought that Pa gaming would force AC to be more competitive and adopt better rules to try to compete for their 'old' customers. Instead of trying to compete for customer or attract new customers, they just decided to try and bleed the few they had left. I am truly stunned that not one exec said hey this isn't working somewhere along the line before it got to this. I don't follow it as closely as I used to when I lived on the east coast, but I am just amazed that they sat back and did nothing but watch. Even came up with excuses other than what they were. For a while they said it was the smoking ban that was doing them in. Then the downturn in the economy.

I thought I read somewhere in the last month that Pa had moved into the number 2 position in gaming revenue in the US, surpassing several states that had more casinos than they did, and where actually pretty close to Nevada, which I found amazing as Nevada has more than 10 times the casinos. If that is the case (and I can't remember where I saw that article to confirm it), you would think that other locations would closely examine Pa in an attempt to figure out just what they are doing right. Apparently not. :confused::laugh:
Apparently, casino owners and managers have a mentality akin to a criminal. They don't think logically. Patrons are suckers and marks. Patrons don't deserve an even break and they're not going to get one. "We're not operating a charity!" "Gamblers are a stupid lot." "Give them a free room and they'll keep coming back." "Here come the sheep. Let's shear them, boys!" "Gamblers are sick; they don't deserve to keep their money." "If we don't take their money, someone else will." "We are much better than PA; we have big hotels, bigger casinos, spas and shows; PA can't compete with that for long." "There's a sucker born every minute of every day!" "We're just giving them what they want!" "These fools don't want to win." "Where do they keep coming from?" "We can just lay off more employees until the economy picks up." "It's the economy, stupid!" "Our employees are almost as stupid as our customers; there's no good reason to offer better games when we can just fire employees until the economy gets better." "It's a slippery slope when you start making games better for customers!"

Ha! Keep up the good work, APs. Stick it to them (legally) every chance you get. Yes, I overstated my description of the evil casino owner and manager, but not by far. How can any thinking person be in a business that thrives on addiction and deception? Am I going astray somewhere? Well, am I? And I am not disparaging the employees who are stuck in a position where they have to find a way to support their families, especially in such bad times. I only hope they fully realize that casinos are not exactly the compassionate employer they might hope. They will fire you in a New York minute before they will make their games more attractive to stimulate business. And I realize that there are some exceptions. I am glad that some casinos have more sense and do not go the way of least resistance. Some do value their employees. That is not to say I have respect for the gaming industry in general. Am I off base?
 

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#25
aslan said:
Yes, I overstated my description of the evil casino owner and manager, but not by far. How can any thinking person be in a business that thrives on addiction and deception?
I would be tempted to play devil's advocate here, even though I don't disagree with your points, because I see plenty of casino patrons who are just there for a fun weekend and are clearly delighted to be doing something besides going to work or dealing with day-to-day stress. That is, there are recreational gamblers for whom it really is something akin to what the industry tries to call "gaming": an occasional pleasure, which, as with all other pleasures, we pay a fee to enjoy.

But one exhibit most clearly proves that the casino industry is as bad as drug dealers: the hours of operation.

Every place of mere entertainment or recreation, with the exception of escort services and bars, closes shop for at least 6 hours a day. And I consider escort services and bars to be generally beneficial to society.

If you're not in the business of tickling the dopamine receptors of desperate and addicted gamblers, why the hell is your business humming along at 3 o'clock in the morning?
 

Jacob

Well-Known Member
#27
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html
Gamblor said:
Yes, pretty f***ing sickening. Incidents and press like this costs the casinos more than if 10,000 card counters were to descend on AC. And they apparently completely ignored these highly suspicious criminals scouting out their casinos for victims, probably completely focused on the guy constantly wonging out betting reds.

Recall an incident in front of Caesars where a fist fight broke out, and someone was standing there for 10 minutes with a bloody nose. Not one security guard showed up. Makes you wonder what surveillance is exactly looking at. Or they probably just don't care what happens to their patrons.
I agree with your above remarks.

Job security is a reason why casino guys have targeted APs rather robbers. According to an ex-casino-guy, he commented that unrated-APs' activities were recorded on a casino-log, which would be served as a Bible to justify his salary during layoff times. For example, I've witnessed this incident: a casino guy actually has followed an AP ("D-v-") around on casino floor with a $50-max-bet-sign in his hand. Whenever the AP sits at a bj table, he will place the sign on the table to restrict the AP to a max bet of 50 bucks. I kid you not :mad:. Now many casino workers get laid off due to "Depression", but not him; he still works there and prospers:grin:!
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#28
Jacob said:
You're right except the local extreme poor kids are not hardcore muggers. They might rob you, but they generally don't murder you;).



You're missing the local news which reported that 3 18ish kids (from Camden's Ghetto) robbed, carjacked, & shot 2 Taj's "visitors." Nothing their parents can do when those kids are gangsters. Poverty is the root of crimes such as robbing, carjacking, murdering, etc in casino lands...:cry::sad::sad:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html
Poverty is NOT the root of crimes such as robbing, carjacking, murdering, etc.! Lack of morals is the root. Frankly, I don't care to have money if I have to hit somebody on the head to get it. Need I point to the countless poor individuals who, successful or not, have not gone the way of crime?

Poverty may be one of the commonalities among criminals... in some cases. So might race. Does that mean that skin color causes crime? A commonality is not a cause. Monks of various religions live in poverty with zero crime. And many wealthy, white businessmen do not pull shady deals to accumulate more wealth. But in a culture that finds it easy to substitute the goal of wealth for the ideals of respect for life and property, crime will abound. Society is in a sorry state if it has to depend on everyone being above the poverty level to achieve law and order. Being wealthy does not eliminate crime, but it may make for crimes/immoral activities that affect far more people (Bernard Madoff, bond rating agencies, mortgage bankers). Morals cut across economic lines.
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#29
Friendo said:
I would be tempted to play devil's advocate here, even though I don't disagree with your points, because I see plenty of casino patrons who are just there for a fun weekend and are clearly delighted to be doing something besides going to work or dealing with day-to-day stress. That is, there are recreational gamblers for whom it really is something akin to what the industry tries to call "gaming": an occasional pleasure, which, as with all other pleasures, we pay a fee to enjoy.

But one exhibit most clearly proves that the casino industry is as bad as drug dealers: the hours of operation.

Every place of mere entertainment or recreation, with the exception of escort services and bars, closes shop for at least 6 hours a day. And I consider escort services and bars to be generally beneficial to society.

If you're not in the business of tickling the dopamine receptors of desperate and addicted gamblers, why the hell is your business humming along at 3 o'clock in the morning?
Many fish visit the old fishing hole for a few nibbles at the bait that is always dangling there from an array of hooks and devices. Some of them unfortunately get hooked or trapped and that is not a happy sight, at least, not for the fish's family. :( The analogy is not exact, since casinos rely on the vast majority of people who continually return and lose small amounts of cash. Yet, I have never seen them back off a drunk individual, other than one who is completely unruly, nor a stupid individual who has no idea what he is doing. If everyone was drunk or stupid, I can't imagine casinos losing any sleep over the end result.
 

Jacob

Well-Known Member
#30
aslan said:
Poverty is NOT the root of crimes such as robbing, carjacking, murdering, etc.! Lack of morals is the root. Frankly, I don't care to have money if I have to hit somebody on the head to get it. Need I point to the countless poor individuals who, successful or not, have not gone the way of crime?

Poverty may be one of the commonalities among criminals... in some cases. So might race. Does that mean that skin color causes crime? A commonality is not a cause. Monks of various religions live in poverty with zero crime. And many wealthy, white businessmen do not pull shady deals to accumulate more wealth. But in a culture that finds it easy to substitute the goal of wealth for the ideals of respect for life and property, crime will abound. Society is in a sorry state if it has to depend on everyone being above the poverty level to achieve law and order. Being wealthy does not eliminate crime, but it may make for crimes/immoral activities that affect far more people (Bernard Madoff, bond rating agencies, mortgage bankers). Morals cut across economic lines.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html

I'm sorry to disagree with you because I've first hand contacts with ghetto-ex-criminals. For example, this ex-criminal confessed to me that he almost died after he got shot in his tummy because of drug activities. He said he was so poor that he would do anything to get money, and that desire of cash almost had cost his life. Poverty caused him to do crimes, but almost dying, aka seeing the light (not morals), stopped him from further criminal activities. Now he gambles for a living.

Hey Brother Aslan, some souls are unluckily born in Ghetto and end up on the short hand of the stick. It's so easy for you and me to understand & uphold "morals" when we're not poor and don't live like 18ish-kids from Ghettos (I'm not talking about Saints from Ghetto here). Likewise, it's easier for you to walk & hop among LV casinos at 4am, and not be afraid of muggers because you get a gun in your pocket.

(i.e., Extra advantages prevail. Rich kids get financial advantages over Ghetto kids, and you get an advantage over most of us because you get a legal gun & permit.) ( Hey were you an ex-criminal-governmental-auditor with a badge?).

The bottom line is this: Ghetto poor kids don't care much about morals, but cold CASH! (If I were Obama, I would attempt to mitigate the poverty problem by reinstalling the CETA programs in poor neighborhoods.)

Speaking of Bernie Madoff, hey Wall-Street white collar crimes are above the problem of morals (i.e, the 8th mortal sin which has no name for it). Do you know that "95% of all criminals" in prisons have done less financial damages than Bernie? Also do you know that the mortgage-backed-investment-bankers [MBIB] have done more financial damages (i.e., causing the modern day "Depression") than Bernie and all criminals combined? Has there any MBIB gone to jail yet? NOPE!

Hey Brother Aslan, do look for me at my homebase casino please. I shall treat you to a comped dinner & beers, and we will talk more about poverty, morals, and the 8th sin in Wall Street :) :).
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#31
Jacob said:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html

I'm sorry to disagree with you because I've first hand contacts with ghetto-ex-criminals. For example, this ex-criminal confessed to me that he almost died after he got shot in his tummy because of drug activities. He said he was so poor that he would do anything to get money, and that desire of cash almost had cost his life. Poverty caused him to do crimes, but almost dying, aka seeing the light (not morals), stopped him from further criminal activities. Now he gambles for a living.

Hey Brother Aslan, some souls are unluckily born in Ghetto and end up on the short hand of the stick. It's so easy for you and me to understand & uphold "morals" when we're not poor and don't live like 18ish-kids from Ghettos (I'm not talking about Saints from Ghetto here). Likewise, it's easier for you to walk & hop among LV casinos at 4am, and not be afraid of muggers because you get a gun in your pocket.

(i.e., Extra advantages prevail. Rich kids get financial advantages over Ghetto kids, and you get an advantage over most of us because you get a legal gun & permit.) ( Hey were you an ex-criminal-governmental-auditor with a badge?).

The bottom line is this: Ghetto poor kids don't care much about morals, but cold CASH! (If I were Obama, I would attempt to mitigate the poverty problem by reinstalling the CETA programs in poor neighborhoods.)

Speaking of Bernie Madoff, hey Wall-Street white collar crimes are above the problem of morals (i.e, the 8th mortal sin which has no name for it). Do you know that "95% of all criminals" in prisons have done less financial damages than Bernie? Also do you know that the mortgage-backed-investment-bankers [MBIB] have done more financial damages (i.e., causing the modern day "Depression") than Bernie and all criminals combined? Has there any MBIB gone to jail yet? NOPE!

Hey Brother Aslan, do look for me at my homebase casino please. I shall treat you to a comped dinner & beers, and we will talk more about poverty, morals, and the 8th sin in Wall Street :) :).
Poverty does not CAUSE crime. I myself have been homeless, not knowing where my next meal would be coming from. I have gone without any food whatsoever for days at a time.

You said: The bottom line is this: Ghetto poor kids don't care much about morals, but cold CASH! That not only proves my point that lack of morals is the cause for crime, but also points out that they have not been taught strong moral values as much as they have been taught street-smart (more like street-dumb) values. If they cared more about morals they would not be committing crimes.

It is too bad that your example drug person did not acquire good morals but instead only fear of the consequences for doing wrong. I hope his gambling career does not wind up one of cheating in order to win more cash. Without a moral compass he is almost destined to pursue a life of cheating and stealing wherever he feels he has a sure thing.

Consider this: Calcutta has the lowest crime rate in the world because of the civilising effect of books, Amartya Sen said today in his keynote opening address at the London Book Fair. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090421/jsp/foreign/story_10852684.jsp We all know that the poverty in Calcutta is of epic proportions. A million people have died of starvation there in a single year, yet they have the lowest crime rate in the world.

The point is, poverty has never made a poor person commit a crime. It may make certain crimes more tempting, but it doesn't make them do it. People have to take responsibility for their own behavior. It is true that poor people do not have the same advantages as rich people. That does not give them a free pass to commit crime. It should provide them with more incentive to work hard and make money the honest way. That is how poor people come to this country and work their way up from busboys to restaurant owners with no help but their own determination to make it. They save every dime. But in our culture, part of poverty is having large flat screen TVs, boomboxes, and all the rest. In our culture, it's not how you live, but how much money and how many possessions you have. That shows a distinct lack of good moral underpinning.

I knew one guy who lived under a bridge on a bed propped up on milk crates to prevent the floods from washing him out. He was trying to work his way off the street. He had acquired a suit, a shirt, socks, and a tie from donations and rummaging. He only lacked a pair of shoes to go to a job interview. He also had saved enough money to support himself for a month or so when he did find a job. Then ,someone stole his money from his hiding place in the camp. He did not resort to crime. He continued to save every dime he could get for donations, odd jobs, salvage, whatever. He finally saved up enough money again. He still did not have the size 13 shoes he needed to make himself presentable. Finally, my boss, who I had told of his need, gave me a pair of size 13 shoes to give to him. With that, he went to the job interview he had his eye on, got the job, moved out from the bridge, and I never saw him again except one time he visited the bridge to see his old friends. His street name was "Ice," and Ice was a cool customer. He kept the faith and worked his way out of utter poverty without stealing or selling drugs. Unfortunately, everyone else laid back in their addictions, several died of drugs or alcohol or exposure or AIDS, and I suppose many are still roaming around the streets of Washington, DC. And even of those, not all are drug dealers and not all are thieves. They know that it is their choice; poverty does not take them by the hand and force them to commit crime.
 
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Jacob

Well-Known Member
#32
aslan said:
Poverty does not CAUSE crime. I myself have been homeless, not knowing where my next meal would be coming from. I have gone without any food whatsoever for days at a time.

You said: The bottom line is this: Ghetto poor kids don't care much about morals, but cold CASH! That not only proves my point that lack of morals is the cause for crime, but also points out that they have not been taught strong moral values as much as they have been taught street-smart (more like street-dumb) values. If they cared more about morals they would not be committing crimes.

It is too bad that your example drug person did not acquire good morals but instead only fear of the consequences for doing wrong. I hope his gambling career does not wind up one of cheating in order to win more cash. Without a moral compass he is almost destined to pursue a life of cheating and stealing wherever he feels he has a sure thing.

Consider this: Calcutta has the lowest crime rate in the world because of the civilising effect of books, Amartya Sen said today in his keynote opening address at the London Book Fair. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090421/jsp/foreign/story_10852684.jsp We all know that the poverty in Calcutta is of epic proportions. A million people have died of starvation there in a single year, yet they have the lowest crime rate in the world.

The point is, poverty has never made a poor person commit a crime. It may make certain crimes more tempting, but it doesn't make them do it. People have to take responsibility for their own behavior. It is true that poor people do not have the same advantages as rich people. That does not give them a free pass to commit crime. It should provide them with more incentive to work hard and make money the honest way. That is how poor people come to this country and work their way up from busboys to restaurant owners with no help but their own determination to make it. They save every dime. But in our culture, part of poverty is having large flat screen TVs, boomboxes, and all the rest. In our culture, it's not how you live, but how much money and how many possessions you have. That shows a distinct lack of good moral underpinning.

I knew one guy who lived under a bridge on a bed propped up on milk crates to prevent the floods from washing him out. He was trying to work his way off the street. He had acquired a suit, a shirt, socks, and a tie from donations and rummaging. He only lacked a pair of shoes to go to a job interview. He also had saved enough money to support himself for a month or so when he did find a job. Then ,someone stole his money from his hiding place in the camp. He did not resort to crime. He continued to save every dime he could get for donations, odd jobs, salvage, whatever. He finally saved up enough money again. He still did not have the size 13 shoes he needed to make himself presentable. Finally, my boss, who I had told of his need, gave me a pair of size 13 shoes to give to him. With that, he went to the job interview he had his eye on, got the job, moved out from the bridge, and I never saw him again except one time he visited the bridge to see his old friends. His street name was "Ice," and Ice was a cool customer. He kept the faith and worked his way out of utter poverty without stealing or selling drugs. Unfortunately, everyone else laid back in their addictions, several died of drugs or alcohol or exposure or AIDS, and I suppose many are still roaming around the streets of Washington, DC. And even of those, not all are drug dealers and not all are thieves. They know that it is their choice; poverty does not take them by the hand and force them to commit crime.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html

Poverty vs lack of morals: which one has likely made ghetto kids to rob, carjack, & shoot the 2 Taj's visitors? I've slept on the question, and this morning my answer pops up: BOTH :)! We may get an answer, but surely, given time, some APs will be the next victims of hardcore criminals from ghettos :sad:.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#34
Day #1 Lesson #1 in Statistics for Retarded Reprobates:

Correlation does NOT mean that there is a causal relation.

While Calcutta MAY have a very low rate of (reported) homicide

while having a high rate of book mongers, the same correlation exists

If, for books you substitute: the degree of brutal prison conditions /
severity of sentencing guidelines / degree of dysfunction in the
'justice system' / distrust of law enforcement -- you will have a similar correlation.

Have you ever heard of the "BLACK HOLE OF CALCUTTA" ? *

*http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1961/is-the-black-hole-of-calcutta-a-myth
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#35
aslan said:
I knew one guy who lived under a bridge on a bed propped up on milk crates to prevent the floods from washing him out. He was trying to work his way off the street. He had acquired a suit, a shirt, socks, and a tie from donations and rummaging. He only lacked a pair of shoes to go to a job interview. He also had saved enough money to support himself for a month or so when he did find a job. Then ,someone stole his money from his hiding place in the camp. He did not resort to crime. He continued to save every dime he could get for donations, odd jobs, salvage, whatever. He finally saved up enough money again. He still did not have the size 13 shoes he needed to make himself presentable. Finally, my boss, who I had told of his need, gave me a pair of size 13 shoes to give to him. With that, he went to the job interview he had his eye on, got the job, moved out from the bridge, and I never saw him again except one time he visited the bridge to see his old friends. His street name was "Ice," and Ice was a cool customer. He kept the faith and worked his way out of utter poverty without stealing or selling drugs. Unfortunately, everyone else laid back in their addictions, several died of drugs or alcohol or exposure or AIDS, and I suppose many are still roaming around the streets of Washington, DC. And even of those, not all are drug dealers and not all are thieves. They know that it is their choice; poverty does not take them by the hand and force them to commit crime.
Is Ice Vanilla Ice or Chocolate Ice?
 

aslan

Well-Known Member
#36
Jacob said:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-suspects-taj-mahal-carjacking-130230288.html

Poverty vs lack of morals: which one has likely made ghetto kids to rob, carjack, & shoot the 2 Taj's visitors? I've slept on the question, and this morning my answer pops up: BOTH :)! We may get an answer, but surely, given time, some APs will be the next victims of hardcore criminals from ghettos :sad:.
A poor man can choose whether he will rob or kill. A man with no morals couldn't care less one way or the other, although he might be dissuaded for fear of being caught.

APs are high on the list for robbery. Why? First, because they cannot help but be seen spreading to max bet, and second, because they often do not stay where they play, and therefore must leave the building at some point providing an opportunity for thugs to entrap them. What to do? You can't help spreading to max, but you can take a lot of measures to protect yourself. I can think of at least ten things you can do to ensure your safety; maybe you can think of more. I don't particularly want to educate would be robbers what I may have up my sleeve, so to speak, so I encourage you to make your own list of precautionary measures and follow them. Just because nothing has happened to you up until now, don't be lulled into a false sense of security. I once had a drill sergeant who had seen action. He was always looking over his shoulder, a really paranoid guy. War taught him that. We all laughed at how paranoid he was. Looking back, I don't really think he was so crazy. Around casinos I try to be like him-- I make an effort to be paranoid.
 
#38
Left field

This thread has really gone off into left field! Holy SH*T can anyone stay focused on a given subject around here or is ADD rampant on BJINFO? You can get robbed just as easily at a PA casino as you can with a NJ casino as you can in Vegas as you can in St. Louis, etc. You stand just as good a chance of being robbed in the vincinity of a PA casino as you do with an AC casino.

The difference is that you stand a better chance of winning (before being robbed) at a PA casino over a NJ casino due to better blackjack rules. It's a much better quality game and AC seems to not understand that they have lost blackjack customers due to their crummier rules. They are simply no competition to PA casinos when it comes to blackjack.
 
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