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- Thread starter Badbeat
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Hell'nBack
Well-Known Member
Rumor is teams can't survive in Nevada.
Ryemo
Well-Known Member
I’m not in Vegas, so this would not apply to me. But let me give you some unsolicited advice; no one is going to sporadically team up with you (or bring you on board to an already established team) without vetting you first, and it looks like you joined BJinfo just this month. Trust is huge on any sort of AP team.Badbeat said:
I imagine that not only would someone need to 100% trust your AP abilities, but they would also need to trust your integrity before teaming up with you. At the very least, you’d need to have some references that could vouch for you.
JohnCrover
Banned
It doesn't take as much trust if he's just being paid an hourly to spot on a table.Ryemo said:
JohnCrover
Banned
Sure, pay me 15 bucks an hour, give me a plain ticket and somewhere to sleep and you have one player. I don't eat much. You're going to need more than one player to spot though. I would spot for less but I have somewhere to sleep right now so it needs to be 15. You can vet my play, I use hi Lo but I'm willing to learn any system you want to use, as well as any indices you want me to learn in case you want me to fulfill a role other than spotting.Badbeat said:
Edit : plane
JohnCrover
Banned
Because I want him to succeed.Rebecca C said:
Edit: Let me put it this way, if someone was like, "Hey man, here's your 15 dollars, when the tc gets to this trigger point signal me in and I will bet 3 spots of 5,000 and generate 1000 dollars EV an hour and when we're done I'm going to give you 15 dollars an hour and a bag of rice for dinner. If you have any questions I will be in my comped presidential suite at the MGM grand. " Yeah, I would be like "Ah yeah no, I'm going to need some more gravy. "
On the flip side, if someone shows up out of the blue and says " let's team! " I'm going to say "ok, let's try to work something out. I want to make you some money. " Then I will talk to the player to make sure they know the risk they're taking on and that they know what they're doing because I don't want to play for 5 hours and have the investor call it off after he's bust.
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LV Bear
Administrator
Please read the following:Ant3887 said:
INVESTING IN OTHERS by Al Rogers
Originally posted on BJ21.com Green Chip
Link: https://bj21.com/category/advantage-play/pages/investing-in-others
If you're serious, email [email protected] about team play. There's a guy who has intel on teams, and team play.
ZenKinG
Well-Known Member
What is your bankroll and how many hours have you played? If I had to make a guess, is that you're looking for a team because you haven't made any money yourself like 99% of counters. You and your future partner will most likely fail as well if that's the case.
I honestly think many people don't understand how hard this game really is. Not to mention, I'm almost 100% certain, there are many casinos such as in Las Vegas that rig the ASMs. If it's not that it's something else shady that's going on and guess what, there's nothing you can do to prove it because the cards come pre-shuffled and no one sees what's actually in there other than some programmed rigged machine and some rogue factory in China. But because the public is a bunch of droned out sheep, they believe their government and casinos are all perfectly moral and would NEVER do something to harm the public, no one ever asks questions other than me. As we know, history tells us that's a lie. Casinos like any huge corrupt corporation will roll the dice on something they know they can get away with because even if they get caught it will be a slap on the wrist. Nevada will never take down any of the vegas casinos due to the massive tax revenue they bring to the state. Just remember casinos are run by brain-dead irrational owners. How do I know that, just look at what they did to the game of blackjack thinking that's the long term solution LOL. Yeah let's go ahead and make everything 6:5, sweat the games and god forbid someone spreads their bets, kick them out because their 5-10k bankroll and 1% edge is just gonna take down the city!! Yeah that's the ticket. Too funny.
Just look at my results. Not to pat my self on the back, but I'm just as good, if not better than any of the top counters out there and on top of it, I play an absolute aggressive play style and play an absolutely perfect game and yet I'm not even close to my EV. Over 1000 hours and only up 40k even though I should be up over 70k. That's what happens when there's no transparency. You'll never hit your EV because you're not playing the game you think you're playing. I think I'm playing a 1.5% to 1.8% edge game, but probably been playing a 0.5% game due to immoral corrupt casinos with the gaming commission in their pocket. Also be very leery of all these 'super counters' on these forums with their amazing results. I wouldn't be surprised if I've done the best overall out of anyone.
We all know what happens to casinos who are caught cheating. Slap on the wrist. So much for gaming enforcement. What else is new in this corrupt and pathetic world where people sell their souls to make a buck. Just go and ask the gaming commission if they ever inspect the cards and you'll have your answer. I'll just save all of you time and tell you what they told me. "NO WE DON'T SIR" LOL.
Like I said so much for enforcement. Only ones checking the cards are some rogue factory in China and higher casino management. Let that sink in. Not to mention who knows the amount of tampering that goes on with these ASMs.
I honestly think many people don't understand how hard this game really is. Not to mention, I'm almost 100% certain, there are many casinos such as in Las Vegas that rig the ASMs. If it's not that it's something else shady that's going on and guess what, there's nothing you can do to prove it because the cards come pre-shuffled and no one sees what's actually in there other than some programmed rigged machine and some rogue factory in China. But because the public is a bunch of droned out sheep, they believe their government and casinos are all perfectly moral and would NEVER do something to harm the public, no one ever asks questions other than me. As we know, history tells us that's a lie. Casinos like any huge corrupt corporation will roll the dice on something they know they can get away with because even if they get caught it will be a slap on the wrist. Nevada will never take down any of the vegas casinos due to the massive tax revenue they bring to the state. Just remember casinos are run by brain-dead irrational owners. How do I know that, just look at what they did to the game of blackjack thinking that's the long term solution LOL. Yeah let's go ahead and make everything 6:5, sweat the games and god forbid someone spreads their bets, kick them out because their 5-10k bankroll and 1% edge is just gonna take down the city!! Yeah that's the ticket. Too funny.
Just look at my results. Not to pat my self on the back, but I'm just as good, if not better than any of the top counters out there and on top of it, I play an absolute aggressive play style and play an absolutely perfect game and yet I'm not even close to my EV. Over 1000 hours and only up 40k even though I should be up over 70k. That's what happens when there's no transparency. You'll never hit your EV because you're not playing the game you think you're playing. I think I'm playing a 1.5% to 1.8% edge game, but probably been playing a 0.5% game due to immoral corrupt casinos with the gaming commission in their pocket. Also be very leery of all these 'super counters' on these forums with their amazing results. I wouldn't be surprised if I've done the best overall out of anyone.
We all know what happens to casinos who are caught cheating. Slap on the wrist. So much for gaming enforcement. What else is new in this corrupt and pathetic world where people sell their souls to make a buck. Just go and ask the gaming commission if they ever inspect the cards and you'll have your answer. I'll just save all of you time and tell you what they told me. "NO WE DON'T SIR" LOL.
Like I said so much for enforcement. Only ones checking the cards are some rogue factory in China and higher casino management. Let that sink in. Not to mention who knows the amount of tampering that goes on with these ASMs.
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KewlJ
Well-Known Member
ZenKing, you just never give up do you? 
There are so many things wrong with your post that I want to comment on, but to adequately do so, I would be here all day, so I am going to limit myself (for now) to a specific area. IF you have made 40k over 1000 hours when you estimate your EV should be closer to 70k, you are completely in the normal range of variance. You are essentially proving the point you are arguing against.
First of all, many if not most players overestimate EV. Two common mistakes. First being overestimating penetration, especially those that do so by eyeballing, rather than a count of cards played. With the mediocre games that you (and I) are playing, just a slight overestimate in penetration like 75%, when it is actually closer to 70%, makes a huge difference in EV per round.
Second common mistake is that players run sims for a certain set of rules conditions and apply the EV numbers from those sims, not allowing for human error. People are not computers. There is human error in most things in life and repetition (practice) does not change that. Those that like to ignore human error or justify it away, just are not being honest.
Big player once posted that achieving 75% of EV is a reasonable (long-term) expectation because of these factors. I tend to handle it a little differently by intentionally undervaluing my EV to compensate. Sort of a 'err on the side of caution' mentality.
There are so many things wrong with your post that I want to comment on, but to adequately do so, I would be here all day, so I am going to limit myself (for now) to a specific area. IF you have made 40k over 1000 hours when you estimate your EV should be closer to 70k, you are completely in the normal range of variance. You are essentially proving the point you are arguing against. First of all, many if not most players overestimate EV. Two common mistakes. First being overestimating penetration, especially those that do so by eyeballing, rather than a count of cards played. With the mediocre games that you (and I) are playing, just a slight overestimate in penetration like 75%, when it is actually closer to 70%, makes a huge difference in EV per round.
Second common mistake is that players run sims for a certain set of rules conditions and apply the EV numbers from those sims, not allowing for human error. People are not computers. There is human error in most things in life and repetition (practice) does not change that. Those that like to ignore human error or justify it away, just are not being honest.
Big player once posted that achieving 75% of EV is a reasonable (long-term) expectation because of these factors. I tend to handle it a little differently by intentionally undervaluing my EV to compensate. Sort of a 'err on the side of caution' mentality.
Other than the following sentence, and a small part of another I agree with the paragraph.ZenKinG said:
1 "Not to mention, I'm almost 100% certain, there are many casinos such as in Las Vegas that rig the ASMs."
Unproven speculation, to which you yourself stated in the next sentence :
"If it's not that it's something else shady that's going on and guess what, there's nothing you can do to prove it because the cards come pre-shuffled and no one sees what's actually in there other than some programmed rigged machine and some rogue factory in China."
2 "But because the public is a bunch of droned out sheep, they believe their government and casinos are all perfectly moral and would NEVER do something to harm the public, no one ever asks questions other than me."
I can assure you that you are not alone asking questions. I strongly feel that casinos should never ever stop proving that their games are on the up and up legit, without exception. Otherwise, they are not only taking the public's trust for granted which does leave room for doubt about the integrity of their games. If you ask me casinos are too damn arrogant for their own good.
KJ said it very well.ZenKinG said:
Not to mention that again you are making unproven speculations.KewlJ said:IF you have made 40k over 1000 hours when you estimate your EV should be closer to 70k, you are completely in the normal range of variance. You are essentially proving the point you are arguing against.
I agree! The reality is that, without a doubt nobody is watching out for the public interest.ZenKinG said:
Speculation!ZenKinG said:
JohnCrover
Banned
21forme said:
KewlJ
Well-Known Member
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I am wondering what newer players have in mind when they say "team play"? I get the feeling most envision some sort of MIT-like team approach from the movies. In my opinion not only is that unrealistic, but most established teams "burn through" players at the lower end. The experience isn't beneficial to these newer lower end players. They burn out their name and face before they even really get started, to the benefit of the established team members.
The better team approach for newer players is the EMFH team concept. Combining bankrolls (especially beneficial for players with limited bankroll), as well as combining results, which smooths out the variance ride. In this approach the players play separately, sometimes hundreds or thousands of miles a part.
I am in the second year of a two-man EMFH, team or partnership, and am extremely pleased with the experience so far. In either case the big thing...the big obstacle...is trust. That is also the single things that brings down most of these arrangements. I personally would not attempt this with someone I was just meeting through the internet.
I get the feeling most envision some sort of MIT-like team approach from the movies. In my opinion not only is that unrealistic, but most established teams "burn through" players at the lower end. The experience isn't beneficial to these newer lower end players. They burn out their name and face before they even really get started, to the benefit of the established team members.The better team approach for newer players is the EMFH team concept. Combining bankrolls (especially beneficial for players with limited bankroll), as well as combining results, which smooths out the variance ride. In this approach the players play separately, sometimes hundreds or thousands of miles a part.
I am in the second year of a two-man EMFH, team or partnership, and am extremely pleased with the experience so far.
In either case the big thing...the big obstacle...is trust. That is also the single things that brings down most of these arrangements. I personally would not attempt this with someone I was just meeting through the internet.
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