Dice Control: Is It Cheating?

Obviously you can't always win, you just have an edge over a normal player, and yes it is great that the UK gambling age is 18:)
 
Why obviously. If you can control where the dice will land surely you can always bet on it landing there, thus always winning... please elaborate
 
well, i live in canada, i can gamble in the casinos here but the conditions for craps aren't ideal :P you want a 24/7 craps table so you can go at 5 in the morning when there's no other players.

and no, obviously you can't control every single roll. you have to throw the dice a fair distance and they have to touch the back wall. if your throw is a micrometer different or an iota more power, you'll get a different result. you're simply skewing the odds in your favor by reducing the appearance of the 7, which statistically shows up once in 6 rolls. my trials are showing about a 1 in 6.9 ratio which would give me something liek a 7% edge on the low-houseedge bets (but obviously i lose some of this edge at the casino because it isn't exactly the same as my practice rig). extremely elite dice controllers can shoot up to 1 in 9 or 1 in 10, which clearly would give them MONSTROUS edges, but still not a guaranteed win. also if you don't get the ideal spot at the table, it's giogn to be harder, and if theres other ppl playing ur gonna wanna make a few small bets on them and donk off some money as coverplay.
 
a_MASTER_pickup_artist said:
well, i live in canada, i can gamble in the casinos here but the conditions for craps aren't ideal :P you want a 24/7 craps table so you can go at 5 in the morning when there's no other players.

and no, obviously you can't control every single roll. you have to throw the dice a fair distance and they have to touch the back wall. if your throw is a micrometer different or an iota more power, you'll get a different result. you're simply skewing the odds in your favor by reducing the appearance of the 7, which statistically shows up once in 6 rolls. my trials are showing about a 1 in 6.9 ratio which would give me something liek a 7% edge on the low-houseedge bets (but obviously i lose some of this edge at the casino because it isn't exactly the same as my practice rig). extremely elite dice controllers can shoot up to 1 in 9 or 1 in 10, which clearly would give them MONSTROUS edges, but still not a guaranteed win. also if you don't get the ideal spot at the table, it's giogn to be harder, and if theres other ppl playing ur gonna wanna make a few small bets on them and donk off some money as coverplay.
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IF ONE CAN OVER COME THE HOUSE EDGE OF .40% AND EVEN LESS ,DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH ODDS THE HOUSE WILL LET YOU TAKE . THAT WOULD BE GREAT. ( THE MORE ODDS YOU CAN TAKE CUTS THE HOUSE EDGE) . I RECOMMEND TAKING A PASS LINE BET AND TWO COME BETS. FORGET ABOUT ALL OTHER BETS AS THEY WILL ONLY GIVE THE HOUSE ADDED EDGE. TRY PLACING THE 3S ON A V AXES WITH THE 2&8 FACING YOU . NOT ROLLING THE SEVEN IS THE ONLY THING YOU SHOULD BE CONCENTRATING.
 
i saw some guy yesterday that appeared to be trying to dice control. was doing all the set and propper grip, good type arc getting it to hit just below those aligator bumps sometimes .... but the problem was his dice were splitting to far appart in the air.

i even noticed that the craps dealer people what ever you call them were letting people throw the dice well short of the wall and were letting it play......

just something to watch waiting out a negative count....

im going buy some casino dice and try it out since i can sometimes get them to stick together prefectly with not so great dice and will see how it goes
 
actually, i don't do come bets, because the power of come bets comes directly from rolling sevens. during the point cycle, i am trying to reduce 7s, so it's counterproductive to me. instead i place pass line, take odds, and make place bets on the 6 and 8.

yeah, keeping the dice spinning together is absolutely key. even if you dont hit with the perfect power and angle and they bounce a bit mroe than they should, if they do it together you should be fine. however, there are a LOT of people who set the dice these days but dont have a prayer in hell of controlling them due to the way they throw.

at my local casino they usually will call it a no-roll if it doesn't hit the back wall. however, i have had times where i totally missed the pyramids and had the dice come to rest at the bottom of the back wall without bouncing, and they've allowed it.

btw, i'm at 5200 rolls now and still at a 6.9 SRR overall.
looking only at the rolls i've made after watching a DVD with pro players shooting (which has definetly helped my throw); the past 450 rolls; i'm at 7.2-7.4.
 
a_MASTER_pickup_artist said:
\however, there are a LOT of people who set the dice these days but dont have a prayer in hell of controlling them due to the way they throw.
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i find it soo funny. they carefully set the dice.... then WAMMM just throws them any old way against the back there. why now..... and almost everyone does this!!
 
la_dee_daa said:
i find it soo funny. they carefully set the dice.... then WAMMM just throws them any old way against the back there. why now..... and almost everyone does this!!
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It is hilarious! They waste a full minute or two getting the dice just right, then WHAMMMMMM...they throw them with one die almost flying clear off the table to the left and the other bouncing a good three feet off the pyramids. LMAO :laugh:
 
woohoo!

3 hour session today with a partner, net win +$300 after factoring in comps. hit three hard 10s when i was using the hardway sets on teh same roll (too bad i wasn't betting on the 10...) and hit 6s and 8s like no tomorrow. i surprised myself with how large a percentage of my throws were on-axis and just kissed the back wall and died.
 
a_MASTER_pickup_artist said:
woohoo!

3 hour session today with a partner, net win +$300 after factoring in comps. hit three hard 10s when i was using the hardway sets on teh same roll (too bad i wasn't betting on the 10...) and hit 6s and 8s like no tomorrow. i surprised myself with how large a percentage of my throws were on-axis and just kissed the back wall and died.
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how often do u keep them touching each other in the air till they hit?

are u just "kissing" the aligator bumps or the little flat area under them?
 
they actually hit the pyramids, but ever so lightly. the dice aren't always touching eachother in air but are very close together. you really -dont- need perfection to be able to get a very healthy edge. a "perfect" shot would be just sliding the dice and having them coem to rest with the faces u set on top, and obvioulsy the casino would not allow this. the bumpers will still randomize the shot to a degree, and that's why i'll still seven out. if i didn't, i would be too busy counting my money to be typing this post.
 
"Last March, Stanford Wong candidly stated on his board that he is "a lifetime loser at craps (ignoring publishing, tournaments, and the dice challenge of 2004)."

"Wong is still a believer. His March 20, 2008 post on his board ascribes his lifetime loss to variance."
 
zengrifter said:
"Last March, Stanford Wong candidly stated on his board that he is "a lifetime loser at craps (ignoring publishing, tournaments, and the dice challenge of 2004)."

"Wong is still a believer. His March 20, 2008 post on his board ascribes his lifetime loss to variance."
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Ain't it the truth? Too often the thing we desire to do is the thing we lose at. Ironic! I'm thinking of Samuel Clemens, who wanted more than anything to be a successful businessman. His natural talent, writing, just didn't seem to satisfy the need in him. What was that need? Challenge? A certain self image? I don't know. He failed miserably at business, or so the story goes. Yet he may be the greatest of American writers. Ironic!
 
a_MASTER_pickup_artist said:
they actually hit the pyramids, but ever so lightly. the dice aren't always touching eachother in air but are very close together. you really -dont- need perfection to be able to get a very healthy edge. a "perfect" shot would be just sliding the dice and having them coem to rest with the faces u set on top, and obvioulsy the casino would not allow this. the bumpers will still randomize the shot to a degree, and that's why i'll still seven out. if i didn't, i would be too busy counting my money to be typing this post.
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I STILL SAY ,FORGET ABOUT THE HARD WAYS AND JUST CONCENTRATE ON NOT THROWING THE 7 . PLACE THE 3S ON AXES THAT THE 2& 6 IS FACING YOU . TAKE A PASS LINE BET & 2 COME BETS ,ALL WITH FULL ODDS. THERE IS NOT A BETTER BET IN THE HOUSE. HAVE FUN , ATTITUDE IS A BIG PLUS IN CRAPS . I DID NOT DO SO WELL ON MY LAST TRIP ON A CRUISE SHIP BECAUSE I GOT PO & JUST THREW THE DICE ANYWAY THE STICK MAN WOULD SLIDE THEM BACK TO ME. (DON'T DRINK AND PLAY DICE) INTERESTING POST ... GOOD LUCK POGO
 
The reason i use the hard ways set is because it offers the best protection against the seven. One click of the dice in any direction; there are no sevens showing; my goal is still to reduce the sevens, throwing hardways simply gives me feedback that my throw is bang on. With the 3-V set if the dice yaw one click, you could be staring at a 6-1 or 5-2. Though I do use the 3-V set if my point is 6 or 8 sometimes.

There seems to be a lot of skepticism, but maybe ask yourself if you were the last person picked for sports teams in high school? People are co-ordinated enough to shoot darts at a tiny target and co-ordinated enough to ****ing cut you open and operate on your heart if something's wrong with it. They are also co-ordinated enough to toss some cubes against a back wall so that they aren't completely random.
 
Ok, here are my results, standing from the same distance as next to the stickman and tossing against felt bottom and pyramid backwall. Rolls that do not hit the back wall or bounce off my table were not counted. SRR has dropped a bit due to a long practice session where I couldn't shoot for ****. I am by no means an amazing dice controller/influencer but I can still beat this game. Anyone care to use some mathematical hocus pocus and tell me how likely this is due to random luck?

Things that should be happening:
Sevens reduced due to dice needing to turn 2 clicks to show a seven.
Hardways and inside numbers increased due to set.
2,3,11,12 reduced due to 1 and 6 being on the side.

The first two are happening, the last one isn't (not too important as the most important thing is reducing the 7). Like I said, I am by no means a super pro dice shooter and i've only been doing it for a few months. Elite dice controllers supposedly have SRRs of upwards of 9 - 10.

HARDWAYS set
Total Sample: 6624 Rolls
SRR 6.835913313
# / Expct / Actual / Diff
02 184 181 -3
03 368 373 +5
04 552 562 +10
05 736 713 -23
06 920 953 +33
07 1104 969 -135
08 920 955 +35
09 736 777 +41
10 552 577 +25
11 368 372 +4
12 184 191 +7

HARD 4 184 186 +2
HARD 6 184 227 +43
HARD 8 184 201 +17
HARD T 184 220 +36
Total 736 834 +98

Sorry QFIT... i don't think your "craps edge calculator" is too accurate for me :P

btw any other craps APs here: if a boxman ever tells you to hit the back wall harder, say "that's what your girlfriend says when she comes over to my place". ;)
 
a_MASTER_pickup_artist said:
I am by no means an amazing dice controller/influencer....Anyone care to use some mathematical hocus pocus and tell me how likely this is due to random luck?
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OMG, recorded results. Knock me down with a feather.

Well, speaking only to finishing 135 7's below expectation in 6624 rolls has my attention.

Has to be close to 4.5 stan deviations. 1 in 200000-300000 or so?

So, pretty unlikely results from a random point of view.

If you believe this math hocus-pocus stuff, you should be able to retire soon.

Hope someone can confirm this math hocus-pocus stuff lol.
 
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