Does anyone here use KISS III?
- Thread starter SPX
- Start date
zengrifter
Banned
I don't use it BUT it is equal to KO and Red7 and HiLo. And easier than HiLo. zg
Speaking of which, what ever happened to Red 7? I hear it get mentioned a lot, but I never hear about anyone ever actually using it?
Seems that if they use an unbalanced count it's K-O (with a tiny amount of people using KISS) or if it's a balanced count they use Hi-Lo. Everything else is solely for the purposes of discussion. . .
zengrifter
Banned
I'm still using what I call KISS 2.5,in that I'm using the KISS 2 system with about half the indices for KISS3.I just haven't taken the time to learn the lesser indices yet.
On my most recent trip I used a bit of KO as well. The two are almost interchangable in their effectiveness,from my experiance.
On my most recent trip I used a bit of KO as well. The two are almost interchangable in their effectiveness,from my experiance.
Mr. Rezney is quick to point out that Red7, when Snyder first came up with it, was years ahead of it's time, and no-one gave i a lot of thought. What he did (Rezney) was actually streamline it and make (at least for me) the unbalanced system make sense! Plus, the couple of times I have had questions, he has quickly responded and cleared things up for my limited mind! (The first book I read, Snyder's Blackjack, was a great book, but Mr. Rezney's book, Blackjack Bluebook made it all make sense! It's the system that I decided to learn and am in the process of putting it into real applications. Just seems easy to me.
My 2 cents
-EPS
You have gotten good results, I assume? Did you learn KISS I and II first and actively play with them or learn the entire system before you moved to real casino play?
What exactly do you mean when you say that he STREAMLINED it? I really don't know much about Red 7 except that it has a cool name.
Also, how long did it take you to learn the entire KISS system?
Kiss III count
I went directly to Kiss III, practiced it and went to the casino with it. Have had excellent results.
Hey, want to have some fun? Go to Arnold Snyders' website and place an entry mentioning Fred Renzeys' Kiss III count,either asking what people think of it or that you use it and like it. Mention Freds' book Blackjack Bluebook II while you're at it-THEN WAIT AND SEE HOW MANY MINUTES IT TAKES FOR YOUR ENTRY TO BE ERASED!
I went directly to Kiss III, practiced it and went to the casino with it. Have had excellent results.
Hey, want to have some fun? Go to Arnold Snyders' website and place an entry mentioning Fred Renzeys' Kiss III count,either asking what people think of it or that you use it and like it. Mention Freds' book Blackjack Bluebook II while you're at it-THEN WAIT AND SEE HOW MANY MINUTES IT TAKES FOR YOUR ENTRY TO BE ERASED!
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Why is that? Are they not on good terms? I've certainly never heard Fred say anything negative about Red 7. . .
Mimosine
Well-Known Member
from what i've read, KISS III, KO, Red7 and Hi/Lo are all equal for all intents and purposes. If you were thinking of using any of these systems as a full time "Pro" then you might want to look into the specifics of each system for the type of game you are playing, but then again if you were "going pro" you would probably be well advised to pick up a level 2 system.
I chose KO because i liked the simplicity of it, though i think Red7 and KISS III (which i have read a bit about the latter) do have an advantage in the counting of half-ranks, the count around TC=+2 is more accurate if i recall. The disadvantage for me would be keeping track of half of the 2s or half of the 7s. yes i could do it, but I chose not to with my first counting system.
There is no compelling reason to pick one of the unbalanced systems over the others. pick which one you like best and makes the most sense to you and you will be fine
zengrifter
Banned
Its a shame for the censorship to taint Arnold (The Bishop)'s legacy.
Regarding KISS-3 and other censor-foolish knaves, John May (Yahoo Card Counters Cafe) sent me his manuscript for Get The Edge in BJ back in late '99, to edit. I recommended that he forego the 'Lima Count' in that book and instead perform a reconstitution of Arnold's Red7 and call it 'Black Dueces'.
May ignored my advice and now the only things of Blackjack less memorable than Get The Edge at BJ and the Lima Count is the Yahoo CCCafe which had a grand total of 16 posts last month. zg
By streamlined, I guess I should say-cleared up some misunderstandings I had. I started with Red7 because the first book I read was Snyder's. I have the math skills of a gnat, and when I went to Snyder's site, I always came away feeling like I was surrounded by math geniuses while still in 6th grade! I heard about Blackjack Bluebook, picked up a copy-and Red7 began to make a lot more sense! And when I had questions, I pm'd Fred who cleared things up for me almost immediately!
I guess what I MEANT to say, was that he was able to get on my level of understanding, where Snyder is-well, explaining quantum physics when I was having trouble with general math!!!
As to how long it took to learn-I dunno. I have a lot of time on the road to kill, so I practiced a lot on the simulator on this site (which also helped hone BS skills) and I spend lot of time with cards in my profession, so I picked it up rather quickly, I guess. For the record, however, because I started out learning Red7, I still count the 7's and not the 2's, and I start my running count on Snyder's recommended starts, not Renzy just because I started learning that way first.
But, I'm still learning myself. There are a lot more informed people on this site with a lot better insight!
-EPS