Don't make the same mistake I made.

Lamester · Nov 12, 2009

Sonny said:

Thank you Sonny, for being fair. I'm not saying that I should win every time I play. In fact I didn't expect to win, that's why I only deposited small amounts for testing. It just confirms my suspicions that the Free Play games are rigged in my favor. I will continue to play the free game to make myself feel good occasionally.

My initial intention was to warn other potential customers of these casinos to beware. That's all. Don't flame :flame: me for trying to help the uninitiated.

UK-21 · Nov 13, 2009

Just for some balance, I played 300-400 hands on an online freeplay BJ game not too long ago (my first time at that site), and my result was a loss at over three standard deviations from the EV. Not exactly the greatest encouragement to pull out a credit card and play for real, but an indication that perhaps this one used the same RNG as the real money game.

Take a look at this page: http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix12.html. The next time you play, flat bet, keep a tally of the number of hands you play and then compare your results with the expectations in this chart. Results at higher than .1% probability are within three standard deviations and so are possible without any rigging of a game.

shadroch · Nov 13, 2009

Another casino hack heard from. Hope somebody is taking notes.

HarryKuntz · Nov 13, 2009

Hi Guys,

I've play many many hands online over the last few of years, I make extra cash each month from bonus play, believe or not there are still some very good bonuses out there, they're just hard to find. I've kept in depth records of play and results. I've add many swings but overall the results are scarily accurate according to the house edge.

Although I've never played at the mentioned casino's, in my experience I've not seen any foul play anywhere. Online casinos are not rigged for the simple reason, they don't need to be to make big bucks.

Harry.

Harry1941 · Nov 14, 2009

I would never play online blackjack for cash. I don't trust them. After each hand the cards are place back into the shoe. The mob bosses runs these online casinos. They invented the BS in order for their casinos to have an edge over the player.

Harry

UK-21 · Nov 14, 2009

shadroch said:

You referring to me ?

StandardDeviant · Nov 14, 2009

Harry1941 said:

It wasn't the mob, it was space aliens. Area 51 was originally called Area 21. They changed the 2 to a 5 because they thought 21 was too obvious.

Elhombre · Jan 8, 2010

Lamester, I totally agree, there is a big difference by most of the
Online Casino between freegames and Moneygames.

The freegames are much easier to win.
For my experiance only betfair's freegames were as hard as usual.

Eh.

rabbit215 · Jan 25, 2010

Lamester i definitely agree with you, online casinos its like another big scam, just like you said, you win when you dont play for money (they trying to get you into the game) and you lose as soon as you play for real money. If it looks to good to be true, then probably it is, just remember that.

Ps i gotta agree with couple people here, when your BR is that small you should never bet over $200

Lamester · Feb 2, 2010

Just to let everyone know. I'm still playing the free games. Winning fake money is fun too.

Just make sure you don't put any real ca$h in.

RJT · Feb 17, 2010

Lamester said:

I'm going to be blunt about this - What a steaming load of sh*te you've posted in this thread!
Progression betting carries with it high variance and that's all you've experienced, your small loss isn't anywhere near enough to validate the claims you've made and frankly, just to put this to rest, i've won well over six figures playing online in the last couple of years. By my experience, everyone everywhere should surely invest every penny they can get their hands on playing blackjack and other games online? Either extreem offers no perspective what-so-ever on the fairness of the games we've played. What does however prove that the games offered online are exactly what they claim to be is the mass sampling of hands performed by the likes of Sean over at Casibot (programs bots to play automatically on various casinos and sells them). By gather the results of all the players who play on a specific casino, he can see if hands are turning up in the right proportions, if the win/loss rates match up with what they should do for basic strategy, if the various dealer up cards are turning up in the right quantities etc etc.
This sort of information gathered over massive samples of hands is what demonstrates whether a casino is offering a fair game or not.
Yes there are software providers out there that have been caught cheating, and some groups have fixed their free play games to ensure you have a positive experience - that's why you do a little investigation into the casino you intend to play with before you play using sites like http://www.beatingbonuses.com. The vast majority of casinos online offer fair games - that's not to say they will like you taking their money, they won't and will happily try to hold onto it using all sorts of nepharious terms and conditions, forcing you to wait for months to get your money out, demanding excessive proof of id or simply ignoring you for as long as possible, but there software's are by and large completely fair. Finding a casino with rigged software is a far rarer experience these days than losing 11 hands in a row.

RJT.

Kasi · Feb 23, 2010

Lamester said:

Hi Lamester
Before I accuse you of being a "land-based" Harah's casino rep lol(it's a joke)

I do remember some on-line casino, back in the "early days" being accused of their "free" game being unfairly biased toward the player in order to induce "real" money players. As i recall, this was discovered and they had to stop the practice.

Anyway, since your point seems to be that this casino's "free" play is biased toward the player, would it be possible to post "free-play" logs so this could be determined with more accuracy?

"Cheating" can occur both ways - a +4SD from expected is just as unlikely as a -4 SD from expected kind of thing.

Of course any logs on your "real" play would also always be welcome.

I'm probably biased toward believing on-line is fair as I never found a good reason to not believe it. I did try for years though.

Lamester · Mar 1, 2010

RJT, say what you must. I've been playing the free game and find it entertaining. My post is to warn those who are thinking of playing cash because they can beat the free play game. If you are successful in beating the cash game, then good for you. Perhaps share us your secret.

I just find it hard to believe that I can use a progressive strategy to beat the free game pretty consistently, but managed to loss $1k credit in my first attempt at the cash game.

I'm actually a computer programmer and know how easy it is to put in a biased RNG to target different betting styles.

Lamester · Mar 1, 2010

Kasi said:

Rushmore only shows you a history of 20 of the most recent games. And I haven't played cash in months. To get all the logs, I would have to call customer service, which I'm not going to waste my time on.

RJT · Mar 2, 2010

Lamester said:

Whether you find it hard to believe or not is no ground to make the accusations you have about cheating - i'm no friend of any casino's, but I do view them for most people as a form of entertainment and as long as they offer fair games - which as i stated earlier the vast majority do - i would see them give their rightful reputation - that of a fair entertainment service.
Your tiny sample size offers absolutely no grounds for declaring shenanigans. I've seen a losing run of 20 hands in a row. I wasn't cheated. I've played 200k hands of JoB video poker without a royal flush. I wasn't cheated. I've played with a bet size of 100 and turned 300 into over 10k in the space of a couple of hours. The software wasn't bias towards me. I've hit 2 royal flushes (40000 to 1) in 20 hands. The software wasn't bias towards me. None of these examples offers any context with which to question the integrity of the software provider. Your one, just so happened to be, negative experience gives you no ground what-so-ever to make any accusations.
More than that - as a computer programmer i've got to assume you have at least a fair grounding in mathematics and hence should know that progression systems don't work. This has been proved countless time by people with more patience for nonsense than me. What really happened here is you went on and used a system that doesn't work, and it didn't work. Surprise! Certain progression systems are well documented to produce long strings of mild positive results followed my cataclysmic losses. Whether you've has some short term positive results using the free play games is completely irrelevant and proves absolutely nothing. I sincerely doubt that you've played anywhere near enough hands to produce a valid sample size.

RJT.

QFIT · Mar 2, 2010

Lamester said:

RJT, say what you must. I've been playing the free game and find it entertaining. My post is to warn those who are thinking of playing cash because they can beat the free play game. If you are successful in beating the cash game, then good for you. Perhaps share us your secret.

I just find it hard to believe that I can use a progressive strategy to beat the free game pretty consistently, but managed to loss $1k credit in my first attempt at the cash game.

I'm actually a computer programmer and know how easy it is to put in a biased RNG to target different betting styles.

Continuing to post unsubstantiated accusations of crimes is not useful, to say the least. And your comment on RNGs makes no sense.

sabre · Mar 3, 2010

Lamester said:

Whatever. There is a 0% chance you have a B.S. in any engineering related field.

Lamester · Mar 23, 2010

sabre said:

Wow. That's funny. 0%? If you are a gambler and you use your method of assessing odds, I say you are broke and have nothing to do but spend your time on this board.

Anyways, not worth me commenting any further. Hope you guys convince more people to play online. Good luck.

Grasshopper · Mar 26, 2010

Lamester said:

I was curious about online games practice vs actual and posted a question in the General section. Wish I had read this thread first.

Howerver, not to make too fine a point of things but my feeble math says that with a 1% edge to the house the odds of a run of 11 losses is actually about 1:2000. You say you played about 800 hands. So, my math says you had about a 1:2.5 (One in 2.5) chance of a run of 11 straight hands. So, 11 straight losses in 800 hands is not much of a long shot.

**** happens. For me it is all the games are rigged. I swear every time I double up on 11 against anything under the sun I end up with a 12.

I have been running thousands and thousands of hands against Bodog practice. Plan on investing $100 and playing $1 hands. I'll let you know how that turns out. Different kind of play, seems to me.

Dyepaintball12 · Mar 27, 2010

Lamester said:

You are just the worst kind of person. Don't come on to these boards complaining about losing when some of your bets are 1/3 your bankroll.

And to accuse people on this forum of working for the casino because they don't sympathize with your stupid play?

Chill out man. Go play the Big Wheel.

Don't make the same mistake I made.

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