Is it too much of a giveaway to do this? I was playing at a table yesterday with a woman who seemed to be outbetting her money, and she doubled down for less three different times. The first time I asked her if she didn't mind if I finished her double down. She said no, so I did it two more times (NONE of those actually won). I don't know if it was here or a GWAE podcast but one guy said it was a good scavenger play and way to add EV. Or does this bring unwanted attention from those watching?
Doubling down for another player
- Thread starter JJP
- Start date
Be careful who you're dealing with because some casinos consider those "under the table" transactions and they won't enforce it if the other player decides to not pay you. I learned that the hard way. A ploppie got 66, split them got a double down hand and I gave him chips to double and he ended up winning both hands, I turned a profit but he under paid me significantly and the casino wouldn't do anything about it. I let him know that he under paid me and so did the dealer but he was adamant that he didn't under pay me.
What ended up happening is that I split his hand for him, putting me in for half, then I doubled one for him, putting me in for over half and when he won he only paid me half of the total win.
Here's a few tips
1) If you split for someone make it clear which card is yours and which card is theirs
2) Make sure you know how the house views these transactions
3) Try to weed out the degenerates and avoid doing business with them. They're the ones that are more likely to pull some shady stuff, especially if the house doesn't condone these types of transactions
What ended up happening is that I split his hand for him, putting me in for half, then I doubled one for him, putting me in for over half and when he won he only paid me half of the total win.
Here's a few tips
1) If you split for someone make it clear which card is yours and which card is theirs
2) Make sure you know how the house views these transactions
3) Try to weed out the degenerates and avoid doing business with them. They're the ones that are more likely to pull some shady stuff, especially if the house doesn't condone these types of transactions
Done correctly, scavenger play can be very profitable. Correctly means knowing who you are dealing with and, just as importantly, knowing casino rules and policies. You also need to assess heat which varies from casino to casino and you should know the advantage of the different plays. Just because someone doubles for less doesn't mean you should automatically put up the difference. With that knowledge you can buy or sell hands, fill in those doubles and splits and much more.
In many jurisdictions the player that you double or split with is in complete control of the hand and your money. They are under no obligation to give you anything and the casino will not play referee on your behalf. I recently saw this with a side bet that cost a player several hundred dollars and have heard of others losing thousands. This is why some casinos don't allow the playing of side bets of others.
How about slot machines? You've put a few thousand into your favorite slot with no luck. You've been chatty with your neighboring player so you ask her to press the button for luck. She presses and the machine hits a substantial jackpot. Guess who gets paid?
In many jurisdictions the player that you double or split with is in complete control of the hand and your money. They are under no obligation to give you anything and the casino will not play referee on your behalf. I recently saw this with a side bet that cost a player several hundred dollars and have heard of others losing thousands. This is why some casinos don't allow the playing of side bets of others.
How about slot machines? You've put a few thousand into your favorite slot with no luck. You've been chatty with your neighboring player so you ask her to press the button for luck. She presses and the machine hits a substantial jackpot. Guess who gets paid?
I don't play slots so I have no idea. My logical guess would be whoever put the coin in the slot should get paid, but I'm guessing that's not the case.
I agree I think one should be cautious when you are talking about hundreds of dollars being involved. But the majority of the time, one isn't going to know who they are dealing with. Having said that, I don't regret doing it three times on Sunday.
I agree I think one should be cautious when you are talking about hundreds of dollars being involved. But the majority of the time, one isn't going to know who they are dealing with. Having said that, I don't regret doing it three times on Sunday.
The person who presses the button on the slot machine is the person who gets paid. This happened before when a man was playing with his players card in the machine with his own money but he let his girlfriend press the button one time and she wanted to split the money. He refused, took it to court and lost the entire sum of what I think was $100,000.
Yeah, this was an interesting read or I guess re-read. But, count me in the group that is very selective concerning scavenger play. On paper, sure it looks good. Free EV. Lot's of things look good on paper, but....
Scavenger plays are something that gets noticed. Nothing illegal, and you can argue that non-AP's engage in this regularly, so there is some degree of commonality, but I can assure you that anytime players are exchanging money and reaching over one another to make bets....it is being watched. THAT is their job!
As a player who's primary objective remains longevity and particularly a player playing mostly a rotation of regular games, I try to avoid anything that draws extra attention and scrutiny.
Now that said, every situation is different. I weigh each situation in terms of risk reward. Completing someone double or split of $25, even a strong double like 11 vs 6, just isn't worth the risk for me. But you can be sure if the guy down the end betting $1000 a hand allows for that same opportunity, I am all over it....even if the amount is larger than I am playing. The reward is worth the risk. I will accept the extra attention drawn, scoop up the EV and hopefully win and back myself off that location for a little while.
Scavenger plays are something that gets noticed. Nothing illegal, and you can argue that non-AP's engage in this regularly, so there is some degree of commonality, but I can assure you that anytime players are exchanging money and reaching over one another to make bets....it is being watched. THAT is their job!
As a player who's primary objective remains longevity and particularly a player playing mostly a rotation of regular games, I try to avoid anything that draws extra attention and scrutiny.
Now that said, every situation is different. I weigh each situation in terms of risk reward. Completing someone double or split of $25, even a strong double like 11 vs 6, just isn't worth the risk for me. But you can be sure if the guy down the end betting $1000 a hand allows for that same opportunity, I am all over it....even if the amount is larger than I am playing. The reward is worth the risk. I will accept the extra attention drawn, scoop up the EV and hopefully win and back myself off that location for a little while.
KewlJ said:
Yeah, this was an interesting read or I guess re-read. But, count me in the group that is very selective concerning scavenger play. On paper, sure it looks good. Free EV. Lot's of things look good on paper, but....
Scavenger plays are something that gets noticed. Nothing illegal, and you can argue that non-AP's engage in this regularly, so there is some degree of commonality, but I can assure you that anytime players are exchanging money and reaching over one another to make bets....it is being watched. THAT is their job!
As a player who's primary objective remains longevity and particularly a player playing mostly a rotation of regular games, I try to avoid anything that draws extra attention and scrutiny.
Now that said, every situation is different. I weigh each situation in terms of risk reward. Completing someone double or split of $25, even a strong double like 11 vs 6, just isn't worth the risk for me. But you can be sure if the guy down the end betting $1000 a hand allows for that same opportunity, I am all over it....even if the amount is larger than I am playing. The reward is worth the risk. I will accept the extra attention drawn, scoop up the EV and hopefully win and back myself off that location for a little while.
Scavenger plays are something that gets noticed. Nothing illegal, and you can argue that non-AP's engage in this regularly, so there is some degree of commonality, but I can assure you that anytime players are exchanging money and reaching over one another to make bets....it is being watched. THAT is their job!
As a player who's primary objective remains longevity and particularly a player playing mostly a rotation of regular games, I try to avoid anything that draws extra attention and scrutiny.
Now that said, every situation is different. I weigh each situation in terms of risk reward. Completing someone double or split of $25, even a strong double like 11 vs 6, just isn't worth the risk for me. But you can be sure if the guy down the end betting $1000 a hand allows for that same opportunity, I am all over it....even if the amount is larger than I am playing. The reward is worth the risk. I will accept the extra attention drawn, scoop up the EV and hopefully win and back myself off that location for a little while.
So you want to do these scavenger plays when there's bigger money on the table. Have you ever been stiffed (see post 2 of this thread)? And if we are talking about strangers, aren't you possibly taking on undue risk? Getting stiffed out of $20 isn't the end of the world; getting stiffed on a $1000 wager is a big problem. I've seen fights started over considerably less sums than that.