Doubling on 9

[SleightOfHand]

I saw an article of a casino with a D9 rule earlier this week I think and I was just wondering about something. Regardless of what the article says (although it isn't here), is doubling on A8 usually allowed for D9 games?

 

[rdorange]

double 9 vs. 19

I saw an article of a casino with a D9 rule earlier this week I think and I was just wondering about something. Regardless of what the article says (although it isn't here), is doubling on A8 usually allowed for D9 games?

The hand you mention is a soft 19 or a hard 9. If you double, you will only get one card and most casinos now hold you to hitting a hard 9. SO, if you get an ace, your double down hand is only worth 10, not 20. Likewise, if you get a deuce, you still only have "11".

 

[ihate17]

Think about the first example

The hand you mention is a soft 19 or a hard 9. If you double, you will only get one card and most casinos now hold you to hitting a hard 9. SO, if you get an ace, your double down hand is only worth 10, not 20. Likewise, if you get a deuce, you still only have "11".

We are aware of the casino that when you double A,8 and get a 2, they consider it 11. I am not sure that is the case, as you say, with most casinos.

You first example though is off. If you double 9 and get an ace, that ace was not part of the original 2 cards which made up the 9, so the ace you hit on the double can and is worth 11, making your hand a 20.

ihate17

 

[Mimosine]

most D9 games that i've played don't allow ANY soft doubles. or so i've been told.

further more, (and i could be wrong about this) i think hitting a A8 would have a better expectation than doubling a hard 9. though what do i know... who's got the numbers handy (BJA?).

HIT DOUBLE
A8 v 3-6 ? ?
9 v 3-6 ? ?

 

[rdorange]

oops

You said it right, 17, that is what I meant, about once you consider it 9, and double it must stay a 9. The example I gave stands corrected. I knew someone would staighten me out on that one!:joker:

 

[johndoe]

I seem to remember a lawsuit about this in LV, or perhaps a gaming board appeal. I also think the player won - the A can be 1 or 11, and isn't "locked" until the end of the hand. Does anyone remember this?

 

[creeping panther]

D9-10-11

when you play SD or DD with these rules you need to be aggressive on the soft hand doubles when it is called for.

If the casino will not allow soft doubles with these restrictive rules, walk

CP

 

[SleightOfHand]

most D9 games that i've played don't allow ANY soft doubles. or so i've been told.

further more, (and i could be wrong about this) i think hitting a A8 would have a better expectation than doubling a hard 9. though what do i know... who's got the numbers handy (BJA?).

HIT DOUBLE
A8 v 3-6 ? ?
9 v 3-6 ? ?

I see almost 2x the expectation (loss) doubling 9 compared to A8. I only looked at 6D v 5 and 6 so it might be less on other rules, but it makes sense since A and 2 help the A8 a lot more than 9.

 

[actuary]

I seem to remember a lawsuit about this in LV, or perhaps a gaming board appeal. I also think the player won - the A can be 1 or 11, and isn't "locked" until the end of the hand. Does anyone remember this?

Are you referring to this?

http://www.sweatthemoney.com/sands1.html

 

[BJinNJ]

Only Allowed to Double 9,10,11...

When the player doubled A8 he assigned his Ace = 1.
That's the ONLY way he can have a 9, and so double.
Changing the value of the Ace after doubling is illogical
and inconsistent on the player's part. Although it does
seem strange/odd, the casino was fair IMHO.

He should have stood on 19.

BJinNJ

 

[Warlord]

When the player doubled A8 he assigned his Ace = 1.
That's the ONLY way he can have a 9, and so double.
Changing the value of the Ace after doubling is illogical
and inconsistent on the player's part. Although it does
seem strange/odd, the casino was fair IMHO.

He should have stood on 19.

BJinNJ

I agree, but it is so grey that they should have given him the win and said next time the A is designated as a 1.

The dealers should also be instructed to inform that the Ace is now a hard '1' if used to dbl down with an 8 or 9 when the rules are do:9/10/11 and not doa.

I was in the Sands last week and played for 10 minutes and left. I will never go back again (except rooms are really cheap right now and if I am to tired to drive home.....???) The games all sucked hard and the dealers were rude. It was fun walking over through the ghetto tho.

 

[SleightOfHand]

When the player doubled A8 he assigned his Ace = 1.
That's the ONLY way he can have a 9, and so double.
Changing the value of the Ace after doubling is illogical
and inconsistent on the player's part. Although it does
seem strange/odd, the casino was fair IMHO.

He should have stood on 19.

BJinNJ

But in a non restricted game, if you were to double any soft hand, you assign your Ace = 11 unless the hand would go over 21 in which it is assigned Ace = 1. Example: A3 v 6 doubling gives you a 7 for 21, but 8 for 12 even though you did not declare the value of the ace before the double.

Like the article said, being able to make your Ace into a 1 or 11 whenever you want is a fundamental rule of BJ and unless clearly declared by the casino, denying the player this rule is imo fraud.

 

[jaredmt]

But in a non restricted game, if you were to double any soft hand, you assign your Ace = 11 unless the hand would go over 21 in which it is assigned Ace = 1. Example: A3 v 6 doubling gives you a 7 for 21, but 8 for 12 even though you did not declare the value of the ace before the double.

Like the article said, being able to make your Ace into a 1 or 11 whenever you want is a fundamental rule of BJ and unless clearly declared by the casino, denying the player this rule is imo fraud.

what a stupid rule, I never heard of that. they dont do that at AC do they?
do they still do that at Las Vegas?

 

[SleightOfHand]

what a stupid rule, I never heard of that. they dont do that at AC do they?
do they still do that at Las Vegas?

I think you may have misunderstood. I was asking about what is the most common ruling in casinos that offer D9 in respect to the A8. I have no clue if any other casinos do this, although some replies kind of give mixed results.

 

[zengrifter]

I saw an article of a casino with a D9 rule earlier this week I think and I was just wondering about something. Regardless of what the article says (although it isn't here), is doubling on A8 usually allowed for D9 games?

YES. zg

 

[SleightOfHand]

YES. zg

Lol this was all I was looking for in the original post. ty :grin:

 

[N&B]

I've let this thread float a while, and the glaring error here is the drawn (DD) Ace. The House should NOT be allowed to call the hand Hard 10. The drawn Ace is still 1 or 11 no matter that the player has, by default in doubling, called his initial hand Hard 9. The drawn Ace is still 1 or 11 and is to the players natural advantage to call it 11 + Hard 9 = 20. I agree with the former rule that the initial hand is Hard 9, and not Soft 9 by Rule and agreement. Thus the Deuce is tough luck Charlie 11.

 

[Kasi]

...Thus the Deuce is tough luck Charlie 11.

In fact that was upheld by the Nevada Gaming Control Board after a guy appealed his A,8 and thought he had a 21 in a D9 game.