Effect of H17 by count

[Ferretnparrot]

I was pondering...(again) and i seem to have a hunch that while the soft 17 rule may be devestating, most of its devestation may occur at negetive counts, i beleive that to somebody who plays only positive, or only plays a limited number of nuetral or negetive counts, that the h17 rule may have a dramatically lessened effect on their edge?

Can anybody prove this?

I think that the difference between...
-House edge play all s17 and house edge play all h17

will be larger than the difference between

-house edge positive counts only s17 and house edge positive counts only h17

 

[takinfromindians97]

i agree

I was pondering...(again) and i seem to have a hunch that while the soft 17 rule may be devestating, most of its devestation may occur at negetive counts, i beleive that to somebody who plays only positive, or only plays a limited number of nuetral or negetive counts, that the h17 rule may have a dramatically lessened effect on their edge?

Can anybody prove this?

I think that the difference between...
-House edge play all s17 and house edge play all h17

will be larger than the difference between

-house edge positive counts only s17 and house edge positive counts only h17

I have thought that for sometime. I do very well when wonging H17 tables, i figured out that usually when it hurts you the count is nuetral or negative, at high counts it usually turns to a hard 17 or busts. I am glad to see someone else say it. I figured if i said it a bunch of guys who go by the numbers and like to bitch and cry cause they sit home all day and night doing nothing but waiting for someone to post something they can tear apart matematicaly. I hate that crap.

 

[creeping panther]

right on

I have thought that for sometime. I do very well when wonging H17 tables, i figured out that usually when it hurts you the count is nuetral or negative, at high counts it usually turns to a hard 17 or busts. I am glad to see someone else say it. I figured if i said it a bunch of guys who go by the numbers and like to bitch and cry cause they sit home all day and night doing nothing but waiting for someone to post something they can tear apart matematicaly. I hate that crap.

but let us not forget that s-17 is by far the better deal. H-17 is BS.

CP

 

[sagefr0g]

I was pondering...(again) and i seem to have a hunch that while the soft 17 rule may be devestating, most of its devestation may occur at negetive counts, i beleive that to somebody who plays only positive, or only plays a limited number of nuetral or negetive counts, that the h17 rule may have a dramatically lessened effect on their edge?

Can anybody prove this?

I think that the difference between...
-House edge play all s17 and house edge play all h17

will be larger than the difference between

-house edge positive counts only s17 and house edge positive counts only h17

rush job here, hope i did anything right. lol.
maybe this gives a hint.
HA diff 0.224 between s17 & h17 play all
HA diff 0.198 between s17 & h17 play positive count only (at essestially same ROR)
note: you can see for comparison purposes the EV at each count for each case.

 

[rukus]

rush job here, hope i did anything right. lol.
maybe this gives a hint.
HA diff 0.224 between s17 & h17 play all
HA diff 0.198 between s17 & h17 play positive count only (at essestially same ROR)
note: you can see for comparison purposes the EV at each count for each case.

look at that increase in SCORE of S17 over H17, even in the positive count situation! you will see perhaps an even smaller house edge and SCORE difference between the two if you ramped your bets. can you run the same things but with a 1-8 spread?

 

[sagefr0g]

look at that increase in SCORE of S17 over H17, even in the positive count situation! you will see perhaps an even smaller house edge and SCORE difference between the two if you ramped your bets. can you run the same things but with a 1-8 spread?

yes, i could run the same things with a 1-8 spread, thing is though if i let cvcx bet optimal then the amounts bet for s17 and h17 are going to be dramatically differant. the ROR will be the same or close but the bets would be way differant.
0.143 HA differance...

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I was pondering...(again) and i seem to have a hunch that while the soft 17 rule may be devestating, most of its devestation may occur at negetive counts, i beleive that to somebody who plays only positive, or only plays a limited number of nuetral or negetive counts, that the h17 rule may have a dramatically lessened effect on their edge?

Can anybody prove this?

I think that the difference between...
-House edge play all s17 and house edge play all h17

will be larger than the difference between

-house edge positive counts only s17 and house edge positive counts only h17

Good hypothesis, and it is correct. You can see on page 5 of this document http://www.blackjackinfo.com/Ben-Franklin-Count.pdf the advantages at true counts for all combinations of rules in shoe games.

The benefits of H17 for the house certainly go downhill as the count increases. The effect is even more profound when late surrender is added, because you will be doing a lot of surrendering against dealer aces and the H17 rule cannot be used against you on those hands.

 

[Ferretnparrot]

SCORE! +0.036% ev for all of the crap games in ac i didnt know i had before!

dude that could be 3.6 cents extra per 100 dollar hand, 36 cents per hour, and on two spots at 150 each, a little over a dollar per hour...Im excited

Thanx for the help guys

 

[moo321]

I figured if i said it a bunch of guys who go by the numbers and like to bitch and cry cause they sit home all day and night doing nothing but waiting for someone to post something they can tear apart matematicaly.

Not that you're bitter or anything... :sad:

 

[blackjack avenger]

Finally, I Can Tear Someone Apart

I have thought that for sometime. I do very well when wonging H17 tables, i figured out that usually when it hurts you the count is nuetral or negative, at high counts it usually turns to a hard 17 or busts. I am glad to see someone else say it. I figured if i said it a bunch of guys who go by the numbers and like to bitch and cry cause they sit home all day and night doing nothing but waiting for someone to post something they can tear apart matematicaly. I hate that crap.

It's mathematicaly, not matematicaly

Sometimes you gotta have a sense of humor!
:joker::whip:

 

[21forme]

It's mathematicaly, not matematicaly

Sometimes you gotta have a sense of humor!
:joker::whip:

You mean mathematically, right? :grin:

 

[Kasi]

You mean mathematically, right? :grin:

I was gonna say that too but I'm just much too nice of a guy :grin: :devil:

 

[blackjack avenger]

I Was Wondering

Who Would Get the Second Joke
Kasi you can't spell, you fool owed 21forme's lead:joker::whip:

 

[Kasi]

Kasi you can't spell,...

That's just plain low - I have to think overnite (misspelled) (is misspelled mispelled?) to grasp the magnitude of being called a bad-speller by a guy who can't spell :grin: :joker: :whip:

Worse, is possibly being blamed for ever using math to prove or disprove someone's question or belief.

I mean why don't they just blame the math itself rather than the messenger

 

[blackjack avenger]

Kelly Spelling

Kasi
You have a 10% chance of spelling 90% of your words wrong. Hence, I guess you are a Kelly speller!:joker::whip: