Effects of aps, sts, hc'ers present

blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
I know that another ap at your table has certain effects, alot of which are negative to your game. Having a shuffle tracker or hole carder at your table can really hurt your bottome line. Some of the authors of bj books have discussed these issues in thier books but, has anyone experienced the effects of these types in your sessions. This is enough of a reason for me to color up and move on if I made you out as one but is this really the right move?
 
blackchipjim said:
Having a shuffle tracker or hole carder at your table can really hurt your bottome line.
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It can either hurt you or help you depending on how much info you are getting from the other player and how you use it. Blindly following a tracker's betting patter can help you, but it can hurt you if you are unaware. Blindly following a holecard player can hurt you in some cases and help you in others. There is a section of The Book that describes the potential effects. My only personal experience has been with Wongers, which we all know about.

-Sonny-
 
What if the STer beside you is building up counts every shoe so you will get a chance to bet big every shoe? I think some people on here have experienced the effects of this....
 
Actually if a counter is unknowingly sitting at a table with a ST it usually is no good for the counter. If a ST is cutting more high cards into play, to a counter the count will tank, and either they will get up and leave, or flat bet minimum until the count gets better or the shoe ends. Thus even though sitting there through a nice advantage, they do not capitalize on it. How many of you counters have jumped off tables due to horrible counts? How many of you have sat through them winning many min bets only wishing the count was higher so you could make real money? How many of you have observed some lucky ploppy betting big in these horrible counts and winning? How many of you have been sitting next to a skilled ST..................... Don't worry, probably not many.
 
blackchipjim said:
I know that another ap at your table has certain effects, alot of which are negative to your game. Having a shuffle tracker or hole carder at your table can really hurt your bottom line.
Click to expand...

I can understand the part about a shuffle tracker cutting the deck in such a way as to possibly hurt a counter, but he only way a HC'er can hurt your game is if he's identified as such by the pit. At that point they would start looking around the table to see if he's utilizing team play, and suddenly YOUR play would start to get very close scrutiny. I MYSELF have been mistakenly identified in this way and barred.

BUT; if that AP happens to be doing certain OTHER things, such as SEQUENCING, that might be another story; depending upon where he's seated at the table. For example, if I'm using one of these aforementioned techniques, sitting in the middle of the table, and you're next to act after me; you are probably in a world of trouble. If you see me stand on 12 vs. the dealer's 10 upcard, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you hit you ARE going to bust!

However, if a sequencer is seated at third base; the dealer will BUST an inordinate number of times. Every BS player at the table will be playing at a SIGNIFICANT advantage!
 
At least for one set of circumstances, a shuffle tracker cutting good slugs to the top has a slight negative impact on an unaware counter at the same table. If the good slug is cut anywhere else in the shoe or if small cards are cut out of play, the counter benefits even if he is unaware that there is a tracker at the table.

http://www.blackjackincolor.com/Shuffletracking3.htm

Obviously it is more useful if you are aware of what is going on and can see what is happening. Sometimes you are fortunate enough to play with a tracker that will let you know when they are feeling "lucky" :rolleyes: :laugh:
 
Well we all have our lucky shoes once and a while. Its good when you are able to capitalize on those lucky shoes.
 
The effect

I have read some of the effects of some unlikely encounters with said people. I have also caused a few tables to clear out after a few well placed cut cards. Now the alledged hcer was a pain to say the least and I do mean alledged since it's hard to pin that on seemingly very lucky jerk hitting hands that he shouldn't and killing the house. As far as my experience tells me sts can and do hurt you if they cut the high cards to the front and the count says leave.
 
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