Empty tables generate unwanted heat

M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
I noticed that during slow times, when casinos are empty, floor supervisors and PC's just stand around chit-chatting and hawking all plays. :eek:

I had an experience recently, during AM hours, where I was playing heads-up at low-limits -- to warm up a little. There were 5-6 tables open in the pit, ranging from $10-$25 minimums, yet only 2 tables (including mine) were occupied and the rest were empty. All throughout the first shoe, I had 2 suits walking around the pit and staring at my play, whispering to each other. The neighboring dealer at an empty table was also checking out all my moves. I noticed this so I purposely fowled up a soft 19 vs a 10 - to see where I stood... Sure enough I won the fowl-up, and she quickly noticed it and commented to the nearby PC.

This clearly raised my suspicion, so I finished up the first shoe, about 10 units up, and played a second shoe, straight BS -- losing 3 units. During this time, I was continuously being watched and as I colored, I saw the PC making gestures and comments... I kept smiling and chatting all along my session which was in-n-out about 35 minutes.

My paranoia or what?

How do the rest of you handle the trade-off:

less players = more hands & less ploppies vs. more attention & more heat?
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
It's a Tradeoff

If you were actually being circled behind your back, not so good. However, if your bets never moved much or you did not win much then you have probably nothing to worry about.

To specifically answer your question, it's up to you and your environment:
How big do you bet?
How much heat do you draw in general?
How much do you win?
How much camo do you use?
How much of a problem is heat?

One can probably stay longer in a casino that is busy then one that is empty.

Experience in your situation will be the best answer.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Hey BA,

I wasn't circled behind my back - I meant the suits were walking around in the pit -- not around me, sorry for that. All this was going on in front of me. The suits would come and go while the neighboring dealer obviously was stationary. I think it was a combo of boredom and something to do. I highly doubt my play generated heat because I was in and out in 1/2 hour, and I never got a great count to ramp up too high... barely wondered off the minimum. I just caught a good run of cards - variance and BS.

To answer your questions though - I often red-chip, spread 1-10 (usually, depending). Usually play short sessions (though longer than this one), heat doesn't bother me too much as I often blend in and I'm able to keep count as I chat with players, dealer and sometimes PC. I try to never outstay my welcome as I prefer to come back rather than burn out an opportunity -- therefore, depending on the conditions, I may walk with 7 units as above or 15 units up. Little camo, mostly to test out circumstances, as above -- don't play high enough to require it frequently.
 
Sharky

Sharky

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
ms, are you a 'chick'? PC's tend to pay a bit more attention to them, especially if you are hot!.

btw, if you fetch the monk a johnny black he'll pat you on your little head :laugh::whip:
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Good opp to make "friends" with the pit. Get them engaged in a conversation and they won't be able to count the cards. Everyone knows these guys are incapable of doing two things at once. Seal the deal by offering them some gum.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
LOL! :laugh:

Nice one Sharky... No, not a chick, a straight-up dude. But now that you mention it.. both the PC's and the neighboring dealers were all chicks... Come to think of it, I did put on that "manly" cologne that morning :cool:

All were ladies except for that last suit that was making gestures as I was coloring up -- he was a dude...

Good Idea Shad -- gum always works
 
B

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
ms069279 said:
I noticed that during slow times, when casinos are empty, floor supervisors and PC's just stand around chit-chatting and hawking all plays. :eek:

I had an experience recently, during AM hours, where I was playing heads-up at low-limits -- to warm up a little. There were 5-6 tables open in the pit, ranging from $10-$25 minimums, yet only 2 tables (including mine) were occupied and the rest were empty. All throughout the first shoe, I had 2 suits walking around the pit and staring at my play, whispering to each other. The neighboring dealer at an empty table was also checking out all my moves. I noticed this so I purposely fowled up a soft 19 vs a 10 - to see where I stood... Sure enough I won the fowl-up, and she quickly noticed it and commented to the nearby PC.

This clearly raised my suspicion, so I finished up the first shoe, about 10 units up, and played a second shoe, straight BS -- losing 3 units. During this time, I was continuously being watched and as I colored, I saw the PC making gestures and comments... I kept smiling and chatting all along my session which was in-n-out about 35 minutes.

My paranoia or what?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are paranoia. It is very common when there are many empty tables. The suits just get together and chit chat while watching the plays. They are not counting and they have seen all kinds of the plays in BJ table so whatever you do won't surprise them. So there is nothing to worry about.

The misconception among the posters here is that most of the time they think there is "heat", it is not. The real heat is that suit get out of his pit and stand behind your back and watch you. If they are watching from a distance, they are just doing their job.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
007 -- sounds good... I also thought that they were mostly bored and watching me was "something to do", in an otherwise uneventful morning. I was playing low stakes, not jumping bets, fowling up plays, chatting along, etc... not much reason to watch me other than, as you say, "doing their job".

I guess I began feeling uncomfortable, not due to the "heat", but rather to the attention being given to me, due to the lack of action around. Sometimes I'm willing to stay longer and tolerate more attention if the opportunity presents itself, and other times, such as this one, when it stops being fun, I just don't feel like it's worth hanging around to keep these guys amused and prefer to walk...
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Heads up!

This phenom of being the focus of attention because of heads up play is the norm for most places. It goes with the territory and is to be expected. The important thing to remember is not to overstay your welcome. The pit can super scrutinize your play if it's not busy and get a real good read on you.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
blackchipjim said:
This phenom of being the focus of attention because of heads up play is the norm for most places. It goes with the territory and is to be expected. The important thing to remember is not to overstay your welcome. The pit can super scrutinize your play if it's not busy and get a real good read on you.
Click to expand...
You can also lull them into a false sense of security. People, by nature are lazy and while the Pit expects to be working full tilt during a peak time, they tend to relax when there is only one or two players and they think they are not at risk.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Heads up!

That's is an excellent point about heads up play. I found that I end up opening up a few tables because when I sit down to play solo the other chicken---- players want to play. It surprises me how many players have an outright fear of playing alone. I understand the mindset but find it amusing to say the least. I wish I had the bankroll to play a high limit table so as to have the table to myself.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
BJChip and Shad...

both make great points... you're both right -- I guess it's up to the individual to read the situation. Heads-up clearly focuses more attention on the player, especially in an empty pit, while at the same time, may catch PC's sleeping with their eyes open. I've seen it many times, when ppl just stare into space due to boredom...

I often believe that when in doubt, keep the session short.

What do you guys think about having a short session then returning on the same shift, like a few hours later, same pit, same dealer/table, etc? Kinda like saying to the dealer/pit, "I'm back fellas, break over"? Too soon or different approach?
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Heads up is going to get you a lot more hands per hour, and thus better EV. But they'll also tend to pay more attention to you, so it's a trade-off.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
ms069279 said:
BJChip and Shad...

both make great points... you're both right -- I guess it's up to the individual to read the situation. Heads-up clearly focuses more attention on the player, especially in an empty pit, while at the same time, may catch PC's sleeping with their eyes open. I've seen it many times, when ppl just stare into space due to boredom...

I often believe that when in doubt, keep the session short.

What do you guys think about having a short session then returning on the same shift, like a few hours later, same pit, same dealer/table, etc? Kinda like saying to the dealer/pit, "I'm back fellas, break over"? Too soon or different approach?
Click to expand...
If you come back, make sure you tell them you got your ass kicked at Casino Z and came back here because this is your lucky casino. Tell em it usually takes hours to lose your daily "bank" here as oppossed to much less time elsewhere
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Your Act!

It's always good to have a good act when you return. I always thought a good actor may be the best ap. I futher believe that someone who doesn't have a good act or is doesn't posess acting ability has a limited playing life expectency. There are so many factors to take into account as to how to attack the fortress it does take time and experiece to sort what works and what doesn't. For a beginner I would say to be on high alert at all times and have a healthy paranoria about your surrounding and people.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Heads up is going to get you a lot more hands per hour, and thus better EV. But they'll also tend to pay more attention to you, so it's a trade-off.
Click to expand...
Thanks Moo, it's a trade-off for sure, it's all about knowing your surroundings and being alert. Sometimes it's better to leave some EV on the table, so you could get a chance to return and cash-in on that EV, with interest!! :cool2:

If you come back, make sure you tell them you got your ass kicked at Casino Z and came back here because this is your lucky casino. Tell em it usually takes hours to lose your daily "bank" here as oppossed to much less time elsewhere
Click to expand...
Great Idea Shad -- flatter them, in a way. I knew it needed some sort of act -- you couldn't just walk back in without having a story prepared to tell and ready to go.

It's always good to have a good act when you return... I futher believe that someone who doesn't have a good act or is doesn't posess acting ability has a limited playing life expectency. There are so many factors to take into account as to how to attack the fortress it does take time and experiece to sort what works and what doesn't. For a beginner I would say to be on high alert at all times and have a healthy paranoria about your surrounding and people.
Click to expand...
BlackChip, it makes sense. I try to lay the cover story/act, before I even leave the original session -- as in, "getting ready to meet the wife/gf for lunch but can't wait to get back...", or "wife/gf out of money while shopping -- need to give her a refill -- be right back"... and absolutely aware of surroundings, as the original post had lots of details and border-line "healthy" paranoia (as you said)... :grin:
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
ms069279 said:
Nice one Sharky... No, not a chick, a straight-up dude. But now that you mention it.. both the PC's and the neighboring dealers were all chicks... Come to think of it, I did put on that "manly" cologne that morning :cool:

All were ladies except for that last suit that was making gestures as I was coloring up -- he was a dude...
Click to expand...
One day, I was playing next to a fellow forum member (I'm sure many can guess who from the story). There was a female PC hanging around the table too much. Fellow forum member hit on her, writing down his room number then asking her what time her shift ended. She stayed far away after that!
 
C

CalgaryBlackJack

Member
#19
#19
I've only played black jack in Canada, Alberta, Calgary and this site is filled with all these "heat" stories.

I'm not a counter( I know how to count high-lo, true count etc.) but find it takes so much energy and at the end of the day even though the count is good and favourable for the player the cards will still come out random and all the times I bet big I get killed at least from my experinces.) But anways, here in Calgary theres no such thing as "heat".

I'm a regular at the casino and me just playing bs makes me walk away with money more then half the time and I know the pit bosses recognize me. Maybe cause I just flat bet so they don't bother me even though I usaully walk out with money?

So maybe all of you should come down for a visit.

The table here have a pretty decent min-max
$5-$200
early surrender
6 decks
allowed to resplit aces
allowed to double on any 2 cards.
 
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V

victorino

Active Member
#20
#20
CalgaryBlackJack said:
The table here have a pretty decent min-max
$5-$200
early surrender
6 decks
split on any 2 cards
allowed to resplit aces
allowed to double on any 2 cards.
Click to expand...
possibly the best rules ever? :) oh, what's the "pene"?
 
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