First Backoff

geneticfreak

geneticfreak

Well-Known Member
I figured it had to happen eventually on my first trip to Vegas as an AP, but didn't see it coming. Bought in for $400 on a $25 DD table and was spreading from 25-125, but only played maybe one or two max bets and didn't drop to the minimum on the shuffle. I thought it was rather conservative but I only lasted about 15 or 20 minutes before the PC came over and pushed my bet out of the circle and told me I was done playing blackjack - feel free to play any other casino games. Inside I was fuming, but I kept my reaction cooperative and politely colored up (3 purple, 2 black). My next move is what I'm concerned about and in retrospect, I know it wasn't the brightest one. I meandered over to the cage and cashed in, which prompted a call to the pit to verify my win. How much grief is that going to cause me in the future, not necessarily there, but in other houses? Do unrelated properties share info and if they do how quickly? Will it effect future trips?
 
Am i reading this right.

you said you colored up for 3 purples and 2 blacks.you bought in for $400.and only played for 20 minutes.
purples are $1000 chips right.did you make that much at the table?if you did i see why they gave you the boot.you were killing them.
 
He also said he made only 2 max bets,which meant he couldn't have been betting more than $100. Do the math and draw your own conclusions.
 
geneticfreak said:
I thought it was rather conservative but I only lasted about 15 or 20 minutes before the PC came over and pushed my bet out of the circle and told me I was done playing blackjack - feel free to play any other casino games.
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You won $1,300 in 20 minutes at a DD game and didn’t see the PB coming? You need to get your radar fixed. The PB was probably giving you the evil eye for about 10 minutes before he was forced to approach you. If you had taken the hint sooner you could still play there on a different shift whenever you want. You can probably still play there since it was a soft back off, but be more careful next time.

geneticfreak said:
I meandered over to the cage and cashed in, which prompted a call to the pit to verify my win.
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It also put your face right in front of the best cameras and brightest lighting in the casino. Play it safe next time. Never cash out after you’ve been backed off or barred. Never.

-Sonny-
 
Would need more info, but do not give it

geneticfreak said:
I figured it had to happen eventually on my first trip to Vegas as an AP, but didn't see it coming. Bought in for $400 on a $25 DD table and was spreading from 25-125, but only played maybe one or two max bets and didn't drop to the minimum on the shuffle. I thought it was rather conservative but I only lasted about 15 or 20 minutes before the PC came over and pushed my bet out of the circle and told me I was done playing blackjack - feel free to play any other casino games. Inside I was fuming, but I kept my reaction cooperative and politely colored up (3 purple, 2 black). My next move is what I'm concerned about and in retrospect, I know it wasn't the brightest one. I meandered over to the cage and cashed in, which prompted a call to the pit to verify my win. How much grief is that going to cause me in the future, not necessarily there, but in other houses? Do unrelated properties share info and if they do how quickly? Will it effect future trips?
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First off: To Pawnbroker, purple chips are generally $500, still a very nice win.

Genetic: Many of the double deck games in Vegas are found in sweat shops.
Boyd/Coast for instance, is known for quick backoffs but will not even recognize you if you return on a different shift and play unrated. A place like the Suncoast or the old, now HET, Barbary Coast were both legendary in showing both counters and non counting winners the door quickly even if they never bet $100.
Now if your backoff came at a place owned by HET and you were using a players card, they might make a notation that will follow you when you return to any HET property, but they have few (if any) decent double deck games that a counter would play, so my guess is it was not there.
Independents, generally will not go any further than internal especially on someone with a $125 high bet.
Also, if you were playing in a place where $100 bets are not common and winning steadily, (the old sweat shop thing again) backoffs are to be expected.

ihate17
 
$1300 is a 52 unit win.

from a few books i've read, a 20-30 unit win is when you call it quits, for the sake of longevity. abiding by this simple rule would probably have put you inline with Sonny's suggestion to be on the lookout for heat.

sure non-counters win sums this big routinely, but the pit can easily distinguish luck from skill and given enough time with the impetus of a big 50+ unit win they will. had you stopped at 25 units they probably wouldn't have had time to evaluate you, much less make a move.
 
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Well, 52 units is a big win, but 20 minutes is hardly overstaying your welcome. I would have been thinking about taking off pretty soon after that, though.
 
geneticfreak said:
I figured it had to happen eventually on my first trip to Vegas as an AP, but didn't see it coming. Bought in for $400 on a $25 DD table and was spreading from 25-125, but only played maybe one or two max bets and didn't drop to the minimum on the shuffle. I thought it was rather conservative but I only lasted about 15 or 20 minutes before the PC came over and pushed my bet out of the circle and told me I was done playing blackjack - feel free to play any other casino games. Inside I was fuming, but I kept my reaction cooperative and politely colored up (3 purple, 2 black). My next move is what I'm concerned about and in retrospect, I know it wasn't the brightest one. I meandered over to the cage and cashed in, which prompted a call to the pit to verify my win. How much grief is that going to cause me in the future, not necessarily there, but in other houses? Do unrelated properties share info and if they do how quickly? Will it effect future trips?
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That's unusually harsh for only 20 minutes of play (what a cheap casino your EV for that 20 minutes was probably only like $20 bucks and the rest of that was a massive positive fluctuation).
The only thing I can say is when you win say +$500 (give or take depending on what kind of jerks run the place), take a 5 minute break, then reappear at another table at another pit to begin again :)
 
Yeah, that sounds like good advice. You certainly didn't do anything wrong. You werent spreading too aggressively or playing too long. Maybe next time rathole some chips.
 
It probally won't cost you much worry, if this real did happen. This sounds pretty far fetched. At what casino did this take place?
 
There were two factors on why I didn't see it coming. First off, it was after a full day on the strip and I was a little more mentally drained than usual, so I didn't see the heat. The other thing was that it happened so quick, I didn't realize how much I was up. I don't think I lost more than two or three hands the whole time. One of those rare cases of very positive variance. The night before, my wife and I were both playing for a couple hours (she's just a BS player) and I was following 1-5 spread without disguising my bets much at all and we won about $300. There was no heat at all then and the PC was really cool and hooked us up with dinner.

I'm just going to avoid the place for the rest of the trip and lightly test the waters there next time we are in town. It's not like there's no other place to go.
 
Nice win, great job! I think the place is a bit sweaty and would have backed off anyone but the most obvious idiot ploppy if they won that big. I like Sonny's tip about not cashing out. Come back and smurf your cash-outs into multiple smaller ones if you have time. Purples are a bit trickier to deal with, but that is a nice problem to have. I prefer to cash out in increments of $400 (less than $500) if I can, but you can probably do more at a big glitzy strip casino.
 
Knox said:
Nice win, great job! I think the place is a bit sweaty and would have backed off anyone but the most obvious idiot ploppy if they won that big. I like Sonny's tip about not cashing out. Come back and smurf your cash-outs into multiple smaller ones if you have time. Purples are a bit trickier to deal with, but that is a nice problem to have. I prefer to cash out in increments of $400 (less than $500) if I can, but you can probably do more at a big glitzy strip casino.
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if you're on vacation with someone, they could always split a purple for you at a table, then you could cash out blacks at your leisure...
 
YOu were playing at the Orleans I would Think. I was backed off there on a nice DD game. But I was betting 500 a hand for about 2 shuffles. It suprises me that people are getting "heat" or being backed off at a lower unit bet level. I dont think I missing anything here either.

What was your betting unit?
 
Uh oh, now I have to deal with some yellows. I didn't even know what those were! Of course I am not makjng any money though. :grin:

Viva Las Vegas baby!
 
corporate policy

mdlbj said:
YOu were playing at the Orleans I would Think. I was backed off there on a nice DD game. But I was betting 500 a hand for about 2 shuffles. It suprises me that people are getting "heat" or being backed off at a lower unit bet level. I dont think I missing anything here either.

What was your betting unit?
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All Coast casinos sweat the money at any bet level.

ihate17
 
Ratholing

When you rathole chips...and make your way to cash out....when they do a verify and call the pit...wouldn't the pit know you were ratholing? Because obviously they thought you lost money or broke even, but when they get a call about a guy who had just won $X,XXX from their pit, and they had just seen him leave the table....wouldn't they get suspiscous?
 
Rspeirsmlb said:
When you rathole chips...and make your way to cash out....when they do a verify and call the pit...wouldn't the pit know you were ratholing? Because obviously they thought you lost money or broke even, but when they get a call about a guy who had just won $X,XXX from their pit, and they had just seen him leave the table....wouldn't they get suspiscous?
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I think they have a really good idea of what u've won and a very exact inventory of all chips.

And I'd be at least a little careful of having others cash ur chips because of money-laundering issues. Everything in moderation.

My wife ratholes green chips all the time. And she's actually been called out on it a couple times when cashing in.

Do RFID chips actuallly exist?
 
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