First Base vs Third Base (Is first base sometimes better?)

[somtum]

It is always said that Third Base makes more money than first base. Of coarse there's no doubt the fact that third base will see most of the cards making it more effective to play your hand correctly according to the count.

But what about shoe games where betting becomes much more of a factor ?
Because third base will receive the very last card of the deal, the count has a much greater chance to drop before getting that second card and playing the hand rather than if you were sitting at first base.

So in my opinion, playing third base is much more effective in playing single and double decks games than larger shoe games. I'm tempted to think that first base could better in shoe games?

 

[Unshake]

Third base is still better, even in shoe games, but not to the same degree as say in a single deck game.

http://www.blackjackincolor.com/penetration10.htm

 

[somtum]

Third base is still better, even in shoe games, but not to the same degree as say in a single deck game.

http://www.blackjackincolor.com/penetration10.htm

Ok.. Although, if this is true i'm wondering what bet spread was used in the sims data with the 6 deck shoe. If someone were to use a 1 to 8 bet spread vs. a 1 to 16 unit bet spread the results should differ. I believe there could be a point using a high enough bet spread that 1st base could overtake 3rd as the better money maker.

I wonder, if possibly, to get the best optimization, when using a large bet spread, is to play the first part of a 6 deck shoe on first base then run over to 3rd base closer to the end of the shoe....then back to first after the shuffle..lol

Although, maybe I have made a new discovery and it should be kept a secret as it will then be easy to spot a counter...I can see it now.. pit boss makes a call to surveillance "Guy on table 6 is playing musical chairs. "Let's keep an eye on his play..he may a counter" :grin:

 

[ExhibitCAA]

A guy called "Monsterbettor" fell into the same trap--it is not true that 1st base has any superiority in terms of betting correlation. (Yes, third base can see more cards by the time he must act on his hand, but we aren't talking about his improved play.) Both players are making their bets with the same information.

Let's say there are 6 spots at the table. First base thus gets the 1st and 8th cards, while third base gets the 6th and 13th cards. Assuming we know nothing about the ORDER of the remaining cards, why would the 1st and 8th cards be any better than the 6th and 13th?

 

[QFIT]

Of course I agree with ExhibitCAA. As his post should end the discussion, I thought I'd add a strange quirk in single-deck play that adds an additional problem at first base. See http://www.qfit.com/card-counting-fbp.htm for an old study.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

First base offers some advantage play opportunities that third base doesn't.

 

[shadroch]

First base offers some advantage play opportunities that third base doesn't.

Ditto.