DonFinuchi
Active Member
Is it possible to design a stratedy based on flat betting to break even? I'm talking about modifying the BS instead of using a bet spread based on the count?
Flat betting
- Thread starter DonFinuchi
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aslan
Well-Known Member
If you wong in at positive counts and wong out when the count goes negative, plus take advantage of your basic index plays, you will have a winning game flat-betting; in fact, you will have the most optimal game possible, and you never have to bet more than minimum bet.assume_R said:
DonFinuchi
Active Member
Most optimal game possible eh? Well I'm guessing that the reason ppl don't do that all the time is that it is probably very noticeable.
The thing is that I'm not a ultra serious a player. I can manage BS, but I would like to explore how much time and work I need to invest to up my game to break even.
I play for fun, and do not intend to invest huge amounts of money in my BR.
But what about a low spread of 1 - 2. Can that raise the bar to fifty - fifty somehow?
The thing is that I'm not a ultra serious a player. I can manage BS, but I would like to explore how much time and work I need to invest to up my game to break even.
I play for fun, and do not intend to invest huge amounts of money in my BR.
But what about a low spread of 1 - 2. Can that raise the bar to fifty - fifty somehow?
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SleightOfHand
Well-Known Member
Most optimal game? Only under the circumstance that you are only going to be flat betting and it still is iffy. It also depends on the definition of optimal. Is optimal defined by WR, advantage, or some other criterion?aslan said:If you wong in at positive counts and wong out when the count goes negative, plus take advantage of your basic index plays, you will have a winning game flat-betting; in fact, you will have the most optimal game possible, and you never have to bet more than minimum bet.
aslan
Well-Known Member
You sound like you also enjoy the social aspects of the game, and that is a good thing. I explored the break-even point for a while, trying to find a minimum spread that would still give me ever so slight an edge. As I recall, with even half a recommended spread, I still came up slightly short. But, yes, you can have a near even up game by employing a low spread, say, 1-2 or 1-3 in double deck, or 1-4 or 1-5 6-deck. But without running the simulations again, I cannot tell you exactly what the even up spread would be, and of course, it assumes perfect basic strategy and counting proficiency. You might also employ such a strategy while waiting for the "perfect storm" of a high positive count, at which time you might decide to risk a full spread, depending on your bankroll resources at the time. As I recall, my sims also included wonging out at the recommended levels, but this is not too burdensome as it only entails a bathroom break from time to time. Good luck and good company in your future blackjack pursuits!DonFinuchi said:
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aslan
Well-Known Member
If your minimum bet is zero, I don't know how you can call it anything other than optimal (for a flat betting scenario), unless you know something I don't know.SleightOfHand said:
Of course, your wong in point will influence your win rate, so you will want to pick the best entry point, and that also would take into consideration the number of hands remaining; for example, would you want 3 hands at a 2.5% advantage or 2 hands at a 3.5% advantage?
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The answer to your question is YES; with some of the high-level counting systems and if you can find a game with the best possible rules,it IS possible to flat bet and play a break-even game. The reason that you would probably not want to DO this is because; once you go through all the trouble of learning how to count cards, it takes exactly NO extra skill to know when to raise your bet. It would be like seeing a five dollar bill and a one dollar bill lying on the ground next to each other, and then bending over to pick up the dollar but leaving the five laying there.
I believe that he was trying to define "optimal" in the context of card counting information only, which is really what the OP was asking about.SleightOfHand said:
But if we want to define "optimal" as including some of the more advanced information gathering techniques; well of course that's a different story altogether.....
DonFinuchi
Active Member
What does "basic index plays" cover? Stuff like optimizing 16v10 play etc.?aslan said:If you wong in at positive counts and wong out when the count goes negative, plus take advantage of your basic index plays, you will have a winning game flat-betting; in fact, you will have the most optimal game possible, and you never have to bet more than minimum bet.
If not, I don't think I would be playing. :grin:aslan said:
The game I have available where I live is 6 decks, S17, D9, DAS, No Surrender, No Peek, which from what I understand is a bit tougher than the games you have in the states... So I'm guessing that 1 - 4 spread wouldn't even cut it...?aslan said:
Hmm... Good point.Sucker said:
jack.jackson
Well-Known Member
yes and no
Yes it's possible, but not likely. The deciding factors would be, the PE of your system, # of decks in play and how deep into the deck they deal. Im assuming a play-all scenario as well.DonFinuchi said:
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