Four advantage players seen together!
- Thread starter Sonny
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How should a counter behave?
This picture with half the guys wearing classy shoes and the other half wearing sport shoes reminds me of one thing I was wondering about: how should a counter behave not to be found out?
Some say to make yourself known, get friendly with dealer/pit-bosses, claim comps, etc... Others say to play a low profile and try to remain unnoticed...
I can see advantages in both ways, but would like opinions of experienced players.
Thanks for sharing your views.
Royam
This picture with half the guys wearing classy shoes and the other half wearing sport shoes reminds me of one thing I was wondering about: how should a counter behave not to be found out?
Some say to make yourself known, get friendly with dealer/pit-bosses, claim comps, etc... Others say to play a low profile and try to remain unnoticed...
I can see advantages in both ways, but would like opinions of experienced players.
Thanks for sharing your views.
Royam
Depends on your style of play
If you are going to be jumping in and out of games looking for high counts, you are better off tyring to be invisible. The hit and run approach works well for Wonging.
If you are going to be playing through the pitch games at high stakes, you will need to be friendly with the pit. They will be watching you. You will need to throw them off the trail, or at least distract them enough so that they don't notice your play.
-Sonny-
If you are going to be jumping in and out of games looking for high counts, you are better off tyring to be invisible. The hit and run approach works well for Wonging.
If you are going to be playing through the pitch games at high stakes, you will need to be friendly with the pit. They will be watching you. You will need to throw them off the trail, or at least distract them enough so that they don't notice your play.
-Sonny-
One thing I don't understand is...
Some people say they are well known in a casino, they have established relationship with dealers or even pit bosses...
I see how you can try to play the high roller with much money and play big once or twice and win without it raising suspicion, but then when staff gets to know you and you regularly win, friendly or not, they should begin to wonder if you're not counting...
On the other hand, if you wong and table-hop, unless you hit a few tables then change casino, they should begin to realize that Mr. X is strangely sitting on a table only when it is favorable...
Puzzled Royam
Some people say they are well known in a casino, they have established relationship with dealers or even pit bosses...
I see how you can try to play the high roller with much money and play big once or twice and win without it raising suspicion, but then when staff gets to know you and you regularly win, friendly or not, they should begin to wonder if you're not counting...
On the other hand, if you wong and table-hop, unless you hit a few tables then change casino, they should begin to realize that Mr. X is strangely sitting on a table only when it is favorable...
Puzzled Royam
Unpuzzled
I spend most of my blackjack time playing at casinos where I am known by name. Generally, I selectively wong out when the count goes bad, you know, cell phone calls, bathroom breaks, flirting with the waitresses, and such. When other players ask about playing decisions, they are frequently advised by dealers and the pit to "ask Mr. ZOD" because he "plays all the time." In the long run, being liked at the table is a whole lot better than being thought of as a jerk.
Of course, they'd still kick me out if they knew what I was doing. So I constantly remind them of a few weeks ago when they kicked the crap out of me. I downplay my wins. And I always, always, filch away chips. Their computer says I'm a loser and the comps keep coming.
By the way, this is just one perspective. What works for me may nail someone else. I just want to play a few hours a week and pick up a dollar or two. I imagine that pros might have a different take on the matter.
Best,
ZOD
I spend most of my blackjack time playing at casinos where I am known by name. Generally, I selectively wong out when the count goes bad, you know, cell phone calls, bathroom breaks, flirting with the waitresses, and such. When other players ask about playing decisions, they are frequently advised by dealers and the pit to "ask Mr. ZOD" because he "plays all the time." In the long run, being liked at the table is a whole lot better than being thought of as a jerk.
Of course, they'd still kick me out if they knew what I was doing. So I constantly remind them of a few weeks ago when they kicked the crap out of me. I downplay my wins. And I always, always, filch away chips. Their computer says I'm a loser and the comps keep coming.
By the way, this is just one perspective. What works for me may nail someone else. I just want to play a few hours a week and pick up a dollar or two. I imagine that pros might have a different take on the matter.
Best,
ZOD
Hmm... interesting view.
Now I see at least one good way to handle it.
Just one other thing if I may ask: what do you mean by "filch chips away"? is it that you remove chips from the table (another poster noted how he got caught doing it)or do you put chips in your pockets when moving from table to table?
Then another stupid question (tell me when my weekly quota of stupid questions is reached!) how does the computer keep track of your being a looser/winner? Example: if you first buy chips for $1000, play a few hours, win $1000 and stick $1600 in your pockets, then cash out $400, will they know it and put you down as a $600 looser? Then just send a friend to cash out the rest?
Thanks for sharing your experience,
Less-puzzled Royam
Now I see at least one good way to handle it.
Just one other thing if I may ask: what do you mean by "filch chips away"? is it that you remove chips from the table (another poster noted how he got caught doing it)or do you put chips in your pockets when moving from table to table?
Then another stupid question (tell me when my weekly quota of stupid questions is reached!) how does the computer keep track of your being a looser/winner? Example: if you first buy chips for $1000, play a few hours, win $1000 and stick $1600 in your pockets, then cash out $400, will they know it and put you down as a $600 looser? Then just send a friend to cash out the rest?
Thanks for sharing your experience,
Less-puzzled Royam
To filch
filch--to steal, especially something of small value; to pilfer
As far as the computer keeping track, it's pretty much as you described, except at lower denominations. In my case, I filch green chips. It's surprising how one or two each shoe (whether winning or losing) can add up over time.
Best,
ZOD
filch--to steal, especially something of small value; to pilfer
As far as the computer keeping track, it's pretty much as you described, except at lower denominations. In my case, I filch green chips. It's surprising how one or two each shoe (whether winning or losing) can add up over time.
Best,
ZOD
Hmm... very interesting.
Your tips are very valuable to me because I don't see me as a pro any time soon, but I'd like to be able to play (and win) without being barred in an area where there are few casinos, all of them very small.
It would thus not be possible to stay anonymous very long (especially because some of them require you to show your passport to gamble!), so your technique seems to be a good solution for me.
The chips filching is the palm thing that was mentioned in another thread? I remember doing it with coins when I was doing magic tricks as a kid...
Royam
Your tips are very valuable to me because I don't see me as a pro any time soon, but I'd like to be able to play (and win) without being barred in an area where there are few casinos, all of them very small.
It would thus not be possible to stay anonymous very long (especially because some of them require you to show your passport to gamble!), so your technique seems to be a good solution for me.
The chips filching is the palm thing that was mentioned in another thread? I remember doing it with coins when I was doing magic tricks as a kid...
Royam
swallowing checques off a game...
works if your wagers are average for that game. if one or two other players are wagering at the same level... green or black, then a few such checques are hard to trace. mucking green checques off a table when you are the only green player is obvious. pitstiffs frequently stare at players' piles, after scanning/tallying the dealer rack (checque !). freebie: do not neatly stack/arrange your pile. obviously the 'stiff knows the table's opening number (and the mid-shift table counts). if their player evaluation notes are accurate (win/loss/color-ups/buy-ins), it's an easy calculation. if there is a shortage, there are only a couple of scenarios... the dealer didn't announce a color up or drop, the player walked without coloring up (without a color-up, the dealer is always asked after that player leaves as to how much he walked with), the player or dealer took the checques off the table, or the pitstiff missed recording a buy-in ("drop"). for small shortages, the dealer may be leaned on for not protecting the game. if the table is significantly light, the pitstiff might be the fall guy. of course, surveillance could be called to review the play. moves to muck off the game are usually obvious in slo-mo. i prefer to use the act rather than sleight of hand, to bury checques.
works if your wagers are average for that game. if one or two other players are wagering at the same level... green or black, then a few such checques are hard to trace. mucking green checques off a table when you are the only green player is obvious. pitstiffs frequently stare at players' piles, after scanning/tallying the dealer rack (checque !). freebie: do not neatly stack/arrange your pile. obviously the 'stiff knows the table's opening number (and the mid-shift table counts). if their player evaluation notes are accurate (win/loss/color-ups/buy-ins), it's an easy calculation. if there is a shortage, there are only a couple of scenarios... the dealer didn't announce a color up or drop, the player walked without coloring up (without a color-up, the dealer is always asked after that player leaves as to how much he walked with), the player or dealer took the checques off the table, or the pitstiff missed recording a buy-in ("drop"). for small shortages, the dealer may be leaned on for not protecting the game. if the table is significantly light, the pitstiff might be the fall guy. of course, surveillance could be called to review the play. moves to muck off the game are usually obvious in slo-mo. i prefer to use the act rather than sleight of hand, to bury checques.
Thx Gehrig
Now that you mention it, I must admit that filching chips at the tables must be hazardous. Even if you fool the dealer and the pit boos, you can't fool the eye. I guess that the best solution would be to "forget" some of your chips in your pockets when coming back from the men's room or even while changing table.
But do I understand correctly that dealers report with how much you left their table? if so, it would mean that if you cannot manage to filch chips from the table, then there would be no point in puting some in your pockets later as the casino would know your hiding them somewhere?
Royam
Now that you mention it, I must admit that filching chips at the tables must be hazardous. Even if you fool the dealer and the pit boos, you can't fool the eye. I guess that the best solution would be to "forget" some of your chips in your pockets when coming back from the men's room or even while changing table.
But do I understand correctly that dealers report with how much you left their table? if so, it would mean that if you cannot manage to filch chips from the table, then there would be no point in puting some in your pockets later as the casino would know your hiding them somewhere?
Royam
That is what scares me...
I have no doubt in my ability to learn the technical aspects of counting. I have however, never been a born actor. I might have to find a set-up where I hide my winnings in a smart way, because more acting might be too much for me.
Well, it all depends on what you mean by acting... is it the type of acting depicted in "Bringing Down the House"?
Royam
I have no doubt in my ability to learn the technical aspects of counting. I have however, never been a born actor. I might have to find a set-up where I hide my winnings in a smart way, because more acting might be too much for me.
Well, it all depends on what you mean by acting... is it the type of acting depicted in "Bringing Down the House"?
Royam
missing checques...
the dealer is usually asked the total of the *seen*/pile when a player refuses to color-up, or just abruptly leaves, ostensibly to play at another table. since the play of the game becomes rote with beaucoup table time, it permits the player to watch the watchers. i like to innocently observe the pitstiffs' activities. that includes their staring at players' checque piles. you've all heard the 'stiff ask a dealer what some dude walked with, after a quick exit. often the amount might be incorrect as i had "cyphered" (j. bodine).
as to using one's act to do anything while on stage/in casino...that's to be learned on the job. the most serious scrutiny may be from afar, the cameras or a 'stiff across the pit. and some of us have enjoyed the fellow who sneaks up behind the player, observing from the aisle.
i recall playing at the old maxim (now, casuarina). i joined a single deck table with one other seated player. i noticed out of the corner of the eye, that a suit was standing in the aisle behind the fellow in center field. the suit was orchestrating the shuffle ups. i stuck around, flat bet playing awhile to enjoy the "floor show". this table was the only one open in the pit. after a few rounds, i carefully inquired as to what was up. the player said..."oh, they think i'm counting cards". i stifled the obvious..."what's that ?".
similarly, in the first hour of the venetian opening morning (20 minutes to 1:00am), i saw a suit hawk a game from the aisle. he stood in back of an obvious counter, who soon got the 86. i've told that story a couple of times before on these 21 sites. coolest thing was that the obvious counter possibly has the record of the first, fastest 86 from a joint's grand opening. as i recollect, he was bounced within 30 minutes of the joint opening the doors.
the dealer is usually asked the total of the *seen*/pile when a player refuses to color-up, or just abruptly leaves, ostensibly to play at another table. since the play of the game becomes rote with beaucoup table time, it permits the player to watch the watchers. i like to innocently observe the pitstiffs' activities. that includes their staring at players' checque piles. you've all heard the 'stiff ask a dealer what some dude walked with, after a quick exit. often the amount might be incorrect as i had "cyphered" (j. bodine).
as to using one's act to do anything while on stage/in casino...that's to be learned on the job. the most serious scrutiny may be from afar, the cameras or a 'stiff across the pit. and some of us have enjoyed the fellow who sneaks up behind the player, observing from the aisle.
i recall playing at the old maxim (now, casuarina). i joined a single deck table with one other seated player. i noticed out of the corner of the eye, that a suit was standing in the aisle behind the fellow in center field. the suit was orchestrating the shuffle ups. i stuck around, flat bet playing awhile to enjoy the "floor show". this table was the only one open in the pit. after a few rounds, i carefully inquired as to what was up. the player said..."oh, they think i'm counting cards". i stifled the obvious..."what's that ?".
similarly, in the first hour of the venetian opening morning (20 minutes to 1:00am), i saw a suit hawk a game from the aisle. he stood in back of an obvious counter, who soon got the 86. i've told that story a couple of times before on these 21 sites. coolest thing was that the obvious counter possibly has the record of the first, fastest 86 from a joint's grand opening. as i recollect, he was bounced within 30 minutes of the joint opening the doors.
Selling cheques to players
Sometimes when a player sits down to buy in during a hand I will offer him cheques and take his cash. This speeds up the game (always advantageous) and gives me a way to take cheques off the table. Of course they see this but it's one more thing for them to keep track of.
I also rathole in the bathroom. If they're watching they will catch you, but if they don't have a reason to be specifically looking for ratholing they will never notice. Then there's the jive with keeping your cheques in a coin bucket, but at my regular stores they know I know better than to do that so that will wear thin quickly.
Don't rathole black.
Sometimes when a player sits down to buy in during a hand I will offer him cheques and take his cash. This speeds up the game (always advantageous) and gives me a way to take cheques off the table. Of course they see this but it's one more thing for them to keep track of.
I also rathole in the bathroom. If they're watching they will catch you, but if they don't have a reason to be specifically looking for ratholing they will never notice. Then there's the jive with keeping your cheques in a coin bucket, but at my regular stores they know I know better than to do that so that will wear thin quickly.
Don't rathole black.
it is illegal.
the issue is that the casinos are given limited latitude when issuing checques or tokens. usta be that checques could be used all over town...restaurants, cabs, bars. no longer. that the checques might be used other than between the casino and the guest would constitute counterfeiting.
the issue is that the casinos are given limited latitude when issuing checques or tokens. usta be that checques could be used all over town...restaurants, cabs, bars. no longer. that the checques might be used other than between the casino and the guest would constitute counterfeiting.