Apparently these guys were taking green $1 chips from the roulette table, and cashed them in at another gaming table in the casino as $25 chips.
Seattle Times story here
Seattle Times story here
Four Charged With Cheating Tribal Casinos in Washington
- Thread starter don
- Start date
HarryKuntz
Well-Known Member
Warning: Don't try this at home!
I can't believe the casino's were that stupid to be using the same roulette chips on different tables.
I have heard of this scam many times before, usally it's done by pocketing cheaply bought chips (Many casino's will have quiet times when table limits and chip values are lower to attact punters) then returning at a different time/day after the table limts & chip values have increased. The same table is used, so the chips match the tableset and the total amount of chips is correct for that table, should the casino suspect and decide to do a stock check. The chips are then usally wagered rather than redeemed, on various and many multible combination bets that provide the lowest risk. This is done to make it as differicult as possible for the casino to keep track of how many chips the scammer has. Winning chips are then redeemed.
Some people have gotten away with this for long periods of time making thousands but eventually they all end up in jail.
I can't believe the casino's were that stupid to be using the same roulette chips on different tables.
I have heard of this scam many times before, usally it's done by pocketing cheaply bought chips (Many casino's will have quiet times when table limits and chip values are lower to attact punters) then returning at a different time/day after the table limts & chip values have increased. The same table is used, so the chips match the tableset and the total amount of chips is correct for that table, should the casino suspect and decide to do a stock check. The chips are then usally wagered rather than redeemed, on various and many multible combination bets that provide the lowest risk. This is done to make it as differicult as possible for the casino to keep track of how many chips the scammer has. Winning chips are then redeemed.
Some people have gotten away with this for long periods of time making thousands but eventually they all end up in jail.
Sonny
Well-Known Member
I've seen many casinos that use the same roulette chips at every table. From what I've seen the chips themselves don’t usually have a set denomination. You might have several people at the same table playing with the same chips (different colors of course) with different monetary values. Typically a casino pays much closer attention to their chip inventory in order to avoid this type of scam, but you would be surprised how many casinos don’t know how to operate properly. I can only imagine what other games might be vulnerable to legal techniques.
That is a more clever approach to the same scam. As usual, criminals are not always that clever.
-Sonny-
:laugh:
lol thats only the ones that we hear of though...
lol thats only the ones that we hear of though...
Brock Windsor
Well-Known Member
Couldn't a decent lawyer beat this charge? Seems like dealer error to me, he didn't alter the chips. Is it against the rules to remove chips from a roulette table? Wouldn't be able to keep the money though.
-BW
-BW
when i dealt roulette a few years ago casino policy was no one could leave the table without first exchanging the roulette chips for value chips, the stacks all had to be even before that color was allowed to leave, if someone slipped out they would have the eye in the sky find them in the casino and the floorperson would go find them to go change out their chips because of this type of scam. In the year we had the game we ended up losing 1 chip total from the game (for some reason they ordered 140 of every color and no more and had 140 out on the table at a time)
ccl
ccl
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Well, this brings to mind another question - is this a criminal matter or a civil matter?
I think everyone would agree that at the very least the casino is within their rights to 86 the players, and probably sue them (civil court) to get the money back. They could probably sue for more than they took as well, citing whatever pain and suffering the casino has gone through.
But is this a criminal act? Is there a law against this, and if so, are the laws applicable to a casino on tribal land?
Would you consider it a criminal law "grey area" if they had used counterfeit chips that they manufactured at home and brought into the casino?
I would view their scheme as criminally equivalent to just such a counterfeit chips (or counterfeit money used to buy chips) scheme--fraud.
callipygian
Well-Known Member
Yes, but does the law view their schemes as criminal? Counterfeiting chips is specifically prohibited by law. Is taking chips from one table and bringing them to another?
You're right that this scheme should be illegal. And given enough abuse (like computers and video cameras in the 1980's) there's no doubt in my mind that it will quickly become illegal by the powers passing a law against it. The question is whether it is currently illegal.
I just meant to say that passing off these $1 roulette chips as $25 standard table chips seems likely to fall under a broadly worded statute prohibiting chip counterfeitig and similar frauds.
You are right of course that if the current counterfeiting / fraud statutes are written narrowly, then maybe this would not qualify and would require modification to the current law(s).
How can you put this scam under counterfeiting a chip from home? It is by far not the same thing. It's the casinos fault for the mistake, not the players. I'd like to know how this one plays out in court.