Foxwoods preshuffled cards??? Something smells!!!

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GoldenGong

Member
I was at the rainmaker casino yesterday morning and they were changing cards. When the supervisor came over to the table he had eight decks already shuffled. So I asked him why they dont flip them up deck by deck like they usually do to verify that no cards are missing from any of the decks a k qs etc. He said that it saves them time to keep the games going. So I was playing and had running count of 58 with about one deck left and said to the dealer I bet there must be a lot of high cards left and when he took the last deck out to shuffle he flipped the cards over and there were only a few t!!! So I called the gaming commission to ask why they changed to preshuffled cards and they told me they were unaware of this taking place and were going to look into it. I was going to stay and count fours or fives and see if they are stacking decks but had to go. Something smells!! I ask the gaming commission how can a player know he's in a fair game if surveillance can't even verify the cards. He agreed and said they would look into it and if it was taking place they would put an end to it and there would be consequences. Haha yea right we will see!!
 
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Ferretnparrot

Ferretnparrot

Well-Known Member
This would be a lot more beleivable if it wasnt your first post.

I was at foxwoods a few weeks ago and encountered several negetive shoes. I have also seen first hand the changing of cards and the cards come out in individual boxes, which they stack clearly in the discard tray for everybody to see whenever they open a new table.
 
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GoldenGong

Member
Ferretnparrot said:
This would be a lot more beleivable if it wasnt your first post.

I was at foxwoods a few weeks ago and encountered several negetive shoes. I have also seen first hand the changing of cards and the cards come out in individual boxes, which they stack clearly in the discard tray for everybody to see whenever they open a new table.
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I'm a platinum player there. They do it on all 8 deck games. The only place they are not is in the Newport 6 deck. Confirmed they do it from now on because they say people were complaining in the morning which is bs. I talked to gaming over the phone again today and they confirmed. My response how can anyone verify the player is getting a fair game? They started to do this a few weeks ago at mgm at a few tables now its normal procedure at every table. Call to verify. I'm here all the time. I use a level two count and I believe they are Def cheating and gaming agreed with me that their was no way for them to verify the accuracy of cards a k q etc.. they come shuffled in the package from the company.
 
G

GoldenGong

Member
Automatic Monkey said:
Bullshit.
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I'm platinum and they use preshuffled cards!!!! I'm at the woods now!! Next time your here let me know and I will take you to the lounge and have a drink and then you can apologize to me haha made platinum in a month 2400 to be exact
 
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S

SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
I can't speak for Foxwoods but I have also noticed some casinos are now buying their cards pre-shuffled. It is certainly one more cause for concern, Golden Gong keep up the inquiry and let us know.
 
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Tico

Well-Known Member
SystemsTrader said:
I can't speak for Foxwoods but I have also noticed some casinos are now buying their cards pre-shuffled. It is certainly one more cause for concern, Golden Gong keep up the inquiry and let us know.
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Preshuffled cards? Nothing news. B0000rg, Hilllllt00000n & other casinos have preshuffled their cards for years. they have their dealers preshuffled cards druing graveshifts as much as they can. The preshuffled cards are sealed in clear-see-through-plastic-containers. They have done that to save time. i.e., when day-shift-dealers come in, they can just open up games without washing, shuffling and the whole 9 yards. Concern? Yes with Indian casinos, NO with AC casinos. AC casinos don't need to cheat since their BJ-holding-percentages are around 10%~21%. Why risk their AC casino licenses when they don't need to cheat to make a killing in bj games.
 
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Mr. T

Well-Known Member
Tico said:
Preshuffled cards? Nothing news. B0000rg, Hilllllt00000n & other casinos have preshuffled their cards for years. they have their dealers preshuffled cards druing graveshifts as much as they can. The preshuffled cards are sealed in clear-see-through-plastic-containers. They have done that to save time. i.e., when day-shift-dealers come in, they can just open up games without washing, shuffling and the whole 9 yards. Concern? Yes with Indian casinos, NO with AC casinos. AC casinos don't need to cheat since their BJ-holding-percentages are around 10%~21%. Why risk their AC casino licenses when they don't need to cheat to make a killing in bj games.
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I have played with preshuffled cards before in unlicenced cruise ship.

My thoughts are why would their staff have to do this work themselves. They probably just have to tell their card supplier they want say a 8 deck pack with each 10's value card taken out in each of the 4 suits. So you would have 3 instead of 4 of 10's, J,Q & K. Nobody can see the difference in actual play. They probably have some code between them for this order.


With the 4, 10 value cards missing it adds up another 2% HA according to the Wizard. And you will efectively screw yourself in CC play.
 
Ferretnparrot

Ferretnparrot

Well-Known Member
Well I'm at foxwoods today, I saw a dealler fanning and touching the cards as they always do with new decks, sure enough they are preshuffled. I don't suspect anything strange, I saw many negetive shoes, and many shoes dealt with deep pen returned closer to zero at the end of the shoe. Overall it seems valid.
 
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MikwZello

Active Member
Tico said:
Preshuffled cards? Nothing news. B0000rg, Hilllllt00000n & other casinos have preshuffled their cards for years. they have their dealers preshuffled cards druing graveshifts as much as they can.
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Weird ??? I play @ B0000rg ALOT...mainly early AM (when the new cards come in 6:00-8:00 depending on the pit/floor) and always watch (from the shadows:cool:) as they spread/fan the decks out and actually check the cards...I've never noticed them preshuffeled
 
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D

duanedibley

Well-Known Member
Ferretnparrot said:
This would be a lot more beleivable if it wasnt your first post.
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I can vouch for OP. He is an upstanding guy and a good player.

I have also seen the pre-shuffled shoes at FW. They were definitely using them sometimes last time I played. I didn't bother to evaluate whether they were stacked or not though, since my assumption was also that FW wouldn't cheat. But who knows.
 
Ferretnparrot

Ferretnparrot

Well-Known Member
I was at fw, and i saw new tables being opened with cards that wernt preshuffled, in the grand pequot casino, while a few weeks ago, i saw the preshuffled cards being opened at mgm. I dont quite understand.

in both cases, they fanned the cards for the cameras and "touched" every card for the cameras to see as they always do.
 
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