Frustrated Thoughts

[Memphis10Tigers]

Over the past three weeks I have been to casinos in Windsor, Detroit, and Mount Pleasant, MI. As a beginner, I keep bouncing back and forth as to whether or not I'm wasting my time on this venture. I keep thinking to myself "I'm a pretty smart dude...I could be using this time to research and learn about more profitable opportunities." But frankly, this interests me more than just about anything right now so I am continuing to learn and learn about hustling this game. At any rate, I find this board to be a good spot to put my random assemblement of thoughts out there so here goes...

Games - Why can't I find any good games? Everywhere I go there are CSMs abound. I have seen 6-deck shoes with "fair" penetration and single deck games with a 6:5 payout. I still have not made it down to Tunica, but I want to take a day and just scout everything out. I hope to put together a bit of a record of the number of tables I see down there, games offered, table minimums, penetration, crowd, etc.

Speaking of CSMs...those things suck! I decided to sit down at one just because I had never played at one and flat bet minimum. I lost 5 hands in a row.

Heat - I don't even know what it feels like to experience this. I haven't really been spreading my bets either to warrant it though. I did, however, get a raised eyebrow from a dealer after putting 100$ down for chips. I'm fairly young (26) but look younger. I'm guessing they think a guy my age shouldn't be putting money down on a game like that. I also got carded at the table before playing in another casino...

Bankroll - I have no idea how much I need for this, but I honestly haven't researched much into it. As I said above, I really just practice the fundamentals while mostly flat betting on both the actual casino. I use software for the most part though. I had it in my mind that I had to save up for some fixed bankroll amount, but have read about the concept of a replenishable bankroll in BBIBJ. I'm thinking an approach from a replenishable aspect is the best route for my lifestyle.

Counting System - I have been using Hi-Lo, but from some of the expert remarks on here it seems an upgrade is eventually a necessity if I ever really expect to compete. I also figure if I am going to go, I might as well go all out. I counted down a deck a few times using Zen tonight and didn't do too shabby so I'm going to see what it's all about.

Indices - I love em' and I want to learn more of em'. I hate making a basic strategy play on hands that I'm unsure of the index even though it feels like I should do the opposite given the count. Knowing more indices will give me this comfort.

Hands per hour - Casinos seem to go wayyy too slow compared to when I play on CVBJ. How many hands can one reasonably expect per hour?

Counting overall - I had some family vacation time and explained the basics of card counting to a pair of my family members (both engineers). We simulated a few shoes of hands and, well, the results didn't sell my idea too well haha. I explained that a large bankroll was necessary, that casinos like games with a high variance, that EV wasn't realized until the long-term, etc. They both thought I was crazy. The martingale wound up being profitable...buf...

At any rate, sorry for the novel, but I find my thoughts on paper to be therapeutic. Some of it may be too detailed (casino locations?), if so,sorry about that too.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Games - Why can't I find any good games?

Times have changed. The games aren't as good as they used to be, so you have to look harder now than before. The bad news: you won't find what you're looking for in the Detroit/Windor area. The good news: you don't have to look as far as Vegas, either. Don't play a crap game just because it's there, especially with a small bankroll. Playing great games a few times a month on a short bankroll is better than playing marginal games every week with that same bankroll.

Heat - I don't even know what it feels like to experience this. I haven't really been spreading my bets either to warrant it though. I did, however, get a raised eyebrow from a dealer after putting 100$ down for chips. I'm fairly young (26) but look younger. I'm guessing they think a guy my age shouldn't be putting money down on a game like that. I also got carded at the table before playing in another casino...

Don't worry about heat just yet. Flat-betting CSMs will not get you heat unless you're betting large. Recognizing and reacting to heat well is what separates the pros from the amateurs, but you don't need to make that your primary concern during the learning stage. Focus on the fundamentals and fine tune your game once you know you're a winning player.

Advice: don't learn the ropes in a casino setting. Get your strategy down at home first, with CVBJ and hand-dealt practice sessions, so that you can focus on what counts when you actually get to the casino.

Bankroll - I have no idea how much I need for this, but I honestly haven't researched much into it.

Research it. A replenishable bankroll is by far the best arrangement for most underfunded solo players (or even ambitious low-stakes teams!). To be perfectly honest, I'm a big advocate of the Hail Mary bankroll, but that's a much more complex topic than I can adequately cover at the moment (lots of vodka at the Russian place, not enough sleep, and I'm going out of town tomorrow).

Counting System - I have been using Hi-Lo, but from some of the expert remarks on here it seems an upgrade is eventually a necessity if I ever really expect to compete. I also figure if I am going to go, I might as well go all out. I counted down a deck a few times using Zen tonight and didn't do too shabby so I'm going to see what it's all about.

Hi-Lo is fine for most shoe game applications. If you feel legitimately comfortable using Zen, then by all means, go for it. Just don't think that a level-2 count is necessary to be "competitive"—it's not. Hi-Lo will beat the games nearly as well as Zen will, and you have better things to worry about than picking a fancy counting system.

Hands per hour - Casinos seem to go wayyy too slow compared to when I play on CVBJ. How many hands can one reasonably expect per hour?

Slow tables are a function of crowded casinos. Given your location and playing stakes, you can probably expect 75 rounds per hour on average. Maybe less on weekends. If you're playing on a replenishable bank of any reasonable size, try the quarter tables and wong in/out more aggressively. This way you can get more rounds in per hour and still maintain a similar WR and RoR.

Counting overall - I had some family vacation time and explained the basics of card counting to a pair of my family members (both engineers). We simulated a few shoes of hands and, well, the results didn't sell my idea too well haha. I explained that a large bankroll was necessary, that casinos like games with a high variance, that EV wasn't realized until the long-term, etc. They both thought I was crazy. The martingale wound up being profitable...buf...

If anyone in your family has taken a high school-level stats course, refer them to the Law of Large Numbers. A few shoes can be hilariously inconclusive, but over time, justice will prevail. Just be glad for the relatively low variance of blackjack. The swings will be impressive at times, but you won't know how lucky you are until possibly much later in your career.

 

[Coyote]

I would be suprised if you were Not frustrated! Some of the stores you mentioned don't offer playable games. $10/hand to flat bet for practice can get quite expensive. What the hell where you doing at a CSM table anyway? You can lose five hands in a row easily due to normal fluctuation! I once lost more than a dozen and the ploppies all went to another table because I was f-ing up their game. I walked away with 80 more units after they were gone! But, I digress.

Read all the books available and keep practicing on the sim and at the kitchen table. Know your count and indicies cold before going back to the store. Zen is a great count if you can use it with out errors in live play. I also understand that if you side count A's and 5's it helps.

It takes a long time to become proficient at counting. Don't get too discouraged!

Read, Study, Practice!

Best of variance and fluctuation to you,
Coyote

 

[21gunsalute]

Heat - I don't even know what it feels like to experience this. I haven't really been spreading my bets either to warrant it though. I did, however, get a raised eyebrow from a dealer after putting 100$ down for chips. I'm fairly young (26) but look younger. I'm guessing they think a guy my age shouldn't be putting money down on a game like that. I also got carded at the table before playing in another casino...

Just keep posting where you've been playing and you'll start getting plenty of heat.

 

[johnnyb]

Just keep posting where you've been playing and you'll start getting plenty of heat.

Telling people where you've played gives little to no information on who you actually are. I'm sure he was one of the many thousand that walked in that day. It's like finding a needle in a haystack!

 

[aslan]

My advice to you is rather than wasting your time traveling to all these casinos, get a copy of CBJN. The information is reliable enough to get an idea whether you want to check it out further in person.

Another tip, when I use the term replenishible, I mean in short order, not after working and saving for six months. Others may have their own idea, but I consider myself bust if I am unable to play for a long time. I use 100 times max bet as a way of eyeballing my bankroll requirement.

 

[21gunsalute]

Telling people where you've played gives little to no information on who you actually are. I'm sure he was one of the many thousand that walked in that day. It's like finding a needle in a haystack!

But if he keeps posting info about where he played, how he played ans so on it isn't difficult for casino personnel to put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Gamblor]

Telling people where you've played gives little to no information on who you actually are. I'm sure he was one of the many thousand that walked in that day. It's like finding a needle in a haystack!

You might be surprised what some people could do with a little bit of information. Plus, the more and more you post, the more info about yourself you give away if your not careful.

 

[aslan]

You might be surprised what some people could do with a little bit of information. Plus, the more and more you post, the more info about yourself you give away if your not careful.

If I were not a recreational player, I'd be a dead duck. Any one thing might not be a problem, but for someone who posts a lot (like myself), you can glean bits and pieces of information that adds up to a fairly detailed profile. As it is, anyone who comes after me just has too much time on his or her hands. I'm no threat to the casinos and therefore, not worth the effort. Still, I don't flaunt what I'm doing when I play, because then I'm forcing them to do their jobs, high risk or not.

 

[Gamblor]

If I were not a recreational player, I'd be a dead duck. Any one thing might not be a problem, but for someone who posts a lot (like myself), you can glean bits and pieces of information that adds up to a fairly detailed profile. As it is, anyone who comes after me just has too much time on his or her hands. I'm no threat to the casinos and therefore, not worth the effort. Still, I don't flaunt what I'm doing when I play, because then I'm forcing them to do their jobs, high risk or not.

Surely a voodo-ish, self admitted pseudo-ploppy such as yourself can't be dangerous? :grin: Hope casino personnel do go through your thousands of posts carefully, they'll be tired out when they have to do their real job

I personally like to mix bold faced lies with half truths, misdirections, inaccurate details, untimely information, obfuscation, inane banter and wild ramblings.

 

[aslan]

Surely a voodo-ish, self admitted pseudo-ploppy such as yourself can't be dangerous? :grin: Hope casino personnel do go through your thousands of posts carefully, they'll be tired out when they have to do their real job

I personally like to mix bold faced lies with half truths, misdirections, inaccurate details, untimely information, inane banter and wild ramblings.

Do I know you? :laugh::joker:

 

[Memphis10Tigers]

The trips I made to these shops were with family or coworkers, so it was more for entertainment purposes than trying to implement any real strategy. I have a long way to go before I put anything real into practice, but I find it beneficial to make an occasional trip to the casino to take in the real experience. There are a lot of little nuances involved at the actual casino that you don't have when practicing on software.

There was a CSM with a few open spots and a couple of my family members wanted to play together so I figured why not. I lost 5 bets in a row.

I'm sure the casinos have bigger players to go after than this small timer, but I guess it's good to be more cautious.

 

[Friendo]

I personally like to mix bold faced lies with half truths ...

I would prefer bald-faced lies. The bold-faced ones just look like shouting.

(Not that I mind Tarzan's posts, since the content is good enough to justify tolerating the thick, heavy font.)

You might add dissembling, prevarication, and question-begging to the above.

 

[shadroch]

My own rule of thumb is I delay all casino reports for X plus days, and generally change the casino name.
If I say this happened to me yesterday at Ballys, it really happened last week at Trump.
I noticed several other posters do similar, only they pre-post.
When Poster 2 says " This happened to me yesterday", he really means "this might happen to me next week".

 

[Friendo]

My own rule of thumb is I delay all casino reports for X plus days, and generally change the casino name.
If I say this happened to me yesterday at Ballys, it really happened last week at Trump.

I have decided to keep my anecdotes to a minimum, and delay most for a few weeks at a minimum. And this is for only the mild to moderately colorful reports.

It's too bad, because I have witnessed a couple of truly remarkable/funny events recently, but any other witness reading my account would remember them vividly - they were that good - and know that I was at the table.

I don't understand why players post announcements of upcoming trips, including specific casinos and times.

 

[aslan]

I have decided to keep my anecdotes to a minimum, and delay most for a few weeks at a minimum. And this is for only the mild to moderately colorful reports.

It's too bad, because I have witnessed a couple of truly remarkable/funny events recently, but any other witness reading my account would remember them vividly - they were that good - and know that I was at the table.

I don't understand why players post announcements of upcoming trips, including specific casinos and times.

Death wish?

 

[Southpaw]

Given the information in your OP, I think that you are overlooking a few opportunities.

Spaw

 

[Sucker]

Telling people where you've played gives little to no information on who you actually are. I'm sure he was one of the many thousand that walked in that day. It's like finding a needle in a haystack!

Yeah, but NOW they're going to go back & study their tapes - everyone who played the CSM that day will be immediately 86'd the next time they set foot in the place! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: