Future of BJ

How long until 8 decks H 17 70% penetration is considered a good game

  • 2 years

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • 5 years

    Votes: 7 22.6%

  • 8 years

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • 10+ years

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • Total voters
    31
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
It is well known that the games as a whole have gotten dramatically worse over the last few years. I attribute this to the wealth of BJ info now available on the web. How long do you guys think it'll be before 8 decks H 17 with bad penetration is considered a good game relatively speaking? Or perhaps they will one day have it so all games are CSM's.
 
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UK-21

UK-21

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
You don't have enough options to choose from. You should also have "never" and "don't know" at the very least. You have worded your survey in such a way that you have prejudged the response - that at some stage in the future this will be considered a good game. You're not a republican are you?

In the UK, allowing the house to H17 would require a rule change to be agreed by the Gambling Commission, and as the EV effect is minimal on a 4 or 6 decker (the only games available to the best of my knowledge), I can't see why they would agree to it. Casinos here are already free to play with as many decks as they wish, and pen is usually down to the dealer, although I'm sure there are certain places where the staff are specifically told to estimate x%.
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
future games

I couldn't vote because of choices,there is a constant that is always changing. The casinos are taking a big hit because of the greed. There will be always casinos that offer good games just far and few between. The availibility may be getting scarce but you will find them with scouting. As far as the bomb them attitude it is largely demographic in nature. That's what makes this country so diverse in nature location,location.location.
 
B

blackjackstudent

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Casinos know that there is a wealth of information on BJ especially on the internet and free seminars etc etc. Casinos have to find ways to counteract counting and advantage play - either by increasing the number of decks or by introducing rules favourable to the house (e.g. no RSA and dealer must hit S 17).

We might see 10 deck BJ played in the future with H 17.

I think in the future, we will see variants of Blackjack like Spanish 21, Double exposure BJ, BJ switch and Super Fun 21. Finding loopholes to exploit in these games is a new phenomenon. You see before Walker wrote her book "The Pro's Guide to Spanish 21 and Australian Pontoon", many BJ pros thought that Spanish 21 couldnt be beaten and they advised most of their students to avoid that game. I think Spanish 21 will attract heat in like 5 years or so.

Also, I should point out - casinos do find their BJ games profitable because if you walk around any casino, you will see the number of BJ tables are much higher than any other games (e.g. Carribean Stud, 3 card poker, crap, Let it Ride Poker etc etc). Most people dont learn BS but play on gut instinct through some superficial psychic abilities.

Las Vegas and Atlantic City will have good BJ games because if a casino offered terrible odds, punters can always find another casino. If there is only one casino per state or one casino per 200 miles, then the casino will monopolize the rules because addicts dont care about the odds of the game.
 
daddybo

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
blackjackstudent said:
Casinos know that there is a wealth of information on BJ especially on the internet and free seminars etc etc. Casinos have to find ways to counteract counting and advantage play - either by increasing the number of decks or by introducing rules favourable to the house (e.g. no RSA and dealer must hit S 17).

We might see 10 deck BJ played in the future with H 17.

I think in the future, we will see variants of Blackjack like Spanish 21, Double exposure BJ, BJ switch and Super Fun 21. Finding loopholes to exploit in these games is a new phenomenon. You see before Walker wrote her book "The Pro's Guide to Spanish 21 and Australian Pontoon", many BJ pros thought that Spanish 21 couldn't be beaten and they advised most of their students to avoid that game. I think Spanish 21 will attract heat in like 5 years or so.

Also, I should point out - casinos do find their BJ games profitable because if you walk around any casino, you will see the number of BJ tables are much higher than any other games (e.g. Caribbean Stud, 3 card poker, crap, Let it Ride Poker etc etc). Most people dont learn BS but play on gut instinct through some superficial psychic abilities.

Las Vegas and Atlantic City will have good BJ games because if a casino offered terrible odds, punters can always find another casino. If there is only one casino per state or one casino per 200 miles, then the casino will monopolize the rules because addicts dont care about the odds of the game.
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It's really very simple guys... Casinos are Capitalism in it's Purest form. They produce nothing while reaping a profit trading money. They will do whatever they believe will make the most profit in the shortest time frame. While they do things with games that actually don't meet this expectation; it's because of poor reasoning and lack of knowledge about unintended consequences coupled with a lack of social understanding and greed. Bottom line; If someone shows them the path to higher profits they will take it... They would give away $100 dollar bills if you could show them they would receive $105 in return. They don't care who wins or loses as long as it's perceived to be good for the bottom line.

My response to the poll would be they would completely rid themselves of the Table games if they could get a way with it. The machine games have way less overhead and higher profits. It's a good thing lots of folks don't care for these mechanical bandits. :eyepatch:
 
S

StudiodeKadent

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
daddybo said:
It's really very simple guys... Casinos are Capitalism in it's Purest form. They produce nothing while reaping a profit trading money.
Click to expand...
Actually, Casinos produce something: entertainment.

The value of any good is not inside the good itself... its simply what someone is willing to pay for it. If a fully-informed customer is willing to trade money in exchange for 'good/service x' then you cannot say that good/service x is 'nothing.'
 
daddybo

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
StudiodeKadent said:
Actually, Casinos produce something: entertainment.

The value of any good is not inside the good itself... its simply what someone is willing to pay for it. If a fully-informed customer is willing to trade money in exchange for 'good/service x' then you cannot say that good/service x is 'nothing.'
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Do people go to a casino to be entertained? Really? Seriously.
 
Katweezel

Katweezel

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
The show is entertaining...

daddybo said:
Do people go to a casino to be entertained? Really? Seriously.
Click to expand...
Down here, in particular at weekends, casinos are packed. They are full of unintentional entertainment, with all kind of shenanigans constantly going on, all around. All of this can be highly entertaining, just watching the show:grin:... Heck, some people even go there to try to win money! :eek: How entertaining is that, if you win!:eyepatch: But of course, the bulk of them have one priority: THIS IS MY LUCKY DAY/NIGHT... :cry: Takes all kinds of ingredients to make a gourmet pie... :laugh:
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Amazingly ...

... ploppies do NOT evaluate games.

To them they are all the same.
I kid you not.
Not only do they lack the knowledge to do so
but they have no clue that there are differences.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Of course people go to a casino to be entertained. Why do you suppose casinos spend millions on decorations?
Have you ever been to Vegas?
 
daddybo

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
shadroch said:
Of course people go to a casino to be entertained. Why do you suppose casinos spend millions on decorations?
Have you ever been to Vegas?
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My theory and I'm not stating it as fact. Most people that go to a casino fall in one of these categories. (and maybe more than one in some cases)

Cat 1: I go to the casino in the hopes of making money. I know the odds are against me but I might get lucky. I can always tell myself I had a good time, if I don't win. At least I'll get free booze and maybe some comps.

Cat 2: I 'm a real gambler. Can't help it.

Cat 3: AP and other knowledgeable players going to make money.

Cat 4: I'm going to the casino because the one(s) I'm with want to go. I don't really care for casinos, but I like the ancillary entertainment and I'll get to see some shows and maybe do the spa. (I hope Bob doesn't lose too much.)

:)
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
A surprisingly large percentage of Vegas visitors don't gamble, or gamble very little. I'm not talking about conventioneers or people that go for work. people go to see shows and examine the newest casinos.
 
M

Mr. T

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
I am the only person on this board and maybe in the world who goes to the casino and expect to lose. So what I do is to try and minimise my losses.

As for winning I get lucky once awhile but in the long run, as sure as 2+2=4, I will lose. As you could find me on my earlier postings I play for the Comps.

Can somebody here explain to me this peculiar US phenomena. With the advent of the CSM why do so many Americans still play BJ and think BJ is still beatable. Better still can somebody tell me why the US casinos don't use the CSM like elsewhere in the world if card counting is a real threat. It must surely cost the casinos much more to use the shoe game. Labour and speed of play costs. Since the US casinos are still using the shoe game I must presume it is still highly prifitable to them. Like the 5% for Roulette and other popular US table games. 0.50% HA must apply to only a tiny fraction of players.

Maybe some well informed person here can tell me what the real HA is for BJ in the US casinos.
 
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creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
#20
#20
The bottom line

Thunder said:
It is well known that the games as a whole have gotten dramatically worse over the last few years. I attribute this to the wealth of BJ info now available on the web. How long do you guys think it'll be before 8 decks H 17 with bad penetration is considered a good game relatively speaking? Or perhaps they will one day have it so all games are CSM's.
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Games in tourist meccas will mostly stay poor due to the clientel just partying and not caring.

The worst mistake to make is what Uston did to AC, casinos need to be able to protect their games.

Competition will always keep things in check to a point.

We will help bad games stay by playing them and not voicing our displeasure.

Ignorant, stupid, dumb gamblers are a threat to playable games being offered as they will play anything put before them, they need education.

Casinos make far too much money off each BJ table to ever dump the game, do not delude yourself in thinking they would like too.

The best BJ will be offered in seasonal tourist areas where heavy competition is cropping up and where casinos are not taxed heavily.

AP's must learn to not be greedy with the good games and good games must be protected.

BJ is here too stay.

CP
 
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