Grosjean: Red 7 vs. Black 7?

[21forme]

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

 

[LeonShuffle]

If it actually exists, there's certainly got to be something more to it than just counting black instead of red. The only thing I could think to tweak Red 7 is to count every 7 as one half.

 

[eps6724]

Count the red 7's, count the black 7's-unless he has a couple of other things going on, the color doesn't matter outside of the roulette table. Rezney's KISS count is identical to the red7, except he chose to count black 2's. (Or red 2's, if you are feeling particularly Republican, I guess!:grin: )

Seriously, the whole point of counting either color of 7's or 2's instead of each one was to avoid the potential problem (for some people) of keeping half counts.

If he has a 'tweak' with black vs. red cards, I'd be interested. If it's only because black cards weigh more because of the chemical makeup of the black pigment vs. the red pigment, well...(Actually, there are some card magicians who say they CAN tell the difference in weight between the cards, but they also seem to be the ones with the amazing ability to bend spoons...)

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If it actually exists, there's certainly got to be something more to it than just counting black instead of red. The only thing I could think to tweak Red 7 is to count every 7 as one half.

Yes, that count is called BRH-0 and it is an improvement to Red 7.

 

[zengrifter]

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

Rensy's KISS-3 beats them both with BLACK TWOS.
Fred tried the red twos first but found that the black twos were better wieghted. zg

 

[eps6724]

Fred tried the red twos first but found that the black twos were better wieghted. zg

I understand that the red 2's tended to slide too far to the right...:grin:

 

[Royals]

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

 

[21forme]

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

Depends on exact conditions and who you read.

Grosjean uses KO, according to his book.

 

[eps6724]

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

Check out table 9.28 (pg. 176) in Blackjack Attack for a good breakdown of a comparison of red7, KO and Hi-Lo under different situations.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Yes, that count is called BRH-0 and it is an improvement to Red 7.

BRH-0 is a level two system so tracks all 7's. 22222100-2-2. It is logical it would outperform Red-7. Still I don't believe the author is the same as mentioned above for "Black 7". If you true counted a similar system it would be a slight improvement I suspect.
BW

 

[aslan]

I've googled every which way to Sunday and can find no mention anywhere of Black Seven. The BRH counting systems are level two systems and tag all sevens +1. But that may be the only attempt to better the red seven counting system--I don't know.

 

[gDGBD]

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

It's a joke and a clever reference to William Carlos Williams's famous poem, "The Red Wheelbarrow":

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.

 

[aslan]

It's a joke and a clever reference to William Carlos Williams's famous poem, "The Red Wheelbarrow":

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.

Oh! That Billy Williams! Why didn't he just say, "Willy C. Williams?" Good radar, 21forme. I still think Black Seven is little improvement over Red Seven, unless, as some have hinted at, you bring a scale to the table, which might be considered a cheating device at some establishments.*

*Plus, it takes up room perhaps better used for chips and drinks, and a few white chickens, if you prefer.

 

[BJinNJ]

I've googled every which way to Sunday and can find no mention anywhere of Black Seven. The BRH counting systems are level two systems and tag all sevens +1. But that may be the only attempt to better the red seven counting system--I don't know.

Renzey's Mentor Count also is level 2 with sevens tagged at +1.
My google of "Black Seven Count Blackjack" brought up a glossary entry
for "Red Seven" at bjrnet.com . The glossary entry says either red or
black sevens counted and gives BC = .98, PE = .54 .

BJinNJ

 

[aslan]

Renzey's Mentor Count also is level 2 with sevens tagged at +1.
My google of "Black Seven Count Blackjack" brought up a glossary entry
for "Red Seven" at bjrnet.com . The glossary entry says either red or
black sevens counted and gives BC = .98, PE = .54 .

BJinNJ

Of course whether you count the black or the red sevens is strictly arbitrary. Snyder just happened to name his system Red Seven. The question was, "Did someone subsequently come up with a system (not a mirror system) that he called Black Seven, or was this all an attempt at humor. It seems to be getting more humorous by the minute, I'd say. I.e., it's becoming difficult to see who's taking this thread seriously and who is not. Not that either is inappropriate. I better stop here while I still don't seem to make any sense.