Halves or Zen?

J

joe-

Member
#1
#1
so the back story on this im new to counting. but been playing for the last 2months (live sessions) at my home casino with the simple hi/lo system.

its 6D games and i totaled up about 250 hours and made a little over 1k.
but my home casino is only an 2 month a year thing (dont ask lol) so now im forced to fly to the nearest one which isnt to far (but i have to plan a whole blackjack trip now)

so with that said i want to be better then i was previously. fairly got bored with hi/lo and i know i can learn a better system.

ok so the casino im planning to hit up plays 8D games, what would be the best system for it? Halves or Zen?

i am gonna spend a few months on learning and mastering it so time isnt an issue. im hoping to be fully prepared for this trip which prob will be next year jan.

also like i said im fairly new and only know BS, hi/lo count, and deviations of BS depending on my count/game rules. Ive read up some threads about indexs and to be honest most just went over my head. any suggestions on sites/books i should hit up?
 
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S

salsa4ever

Member
#3
#3
for an 8 decker definitely hi-lo. especially if indexes go over your head start with 30 indices or so.

if you're gonna be flying, can't you do any better than an 8-decker? you're not going to make more than 1 unit an hour there
 
Y

ycming

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
salsa4ever said:
for an 8 decker definitely hi-lo. especially if indexes go over your head start with 30 indices or so.

if you're gonna be flying, can't you do any better than an 8-decker? you're not going to make more than 1 unit an hour there
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Where did you get the 1 unit / hour from? From what he said in his post there is no way you would know that ... for example his spread.

Don't post incorrect info ....

zengrifter, why do you not recommend halves or zen?
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
from hi lo to halves

Nothing wrong with hi Lo or Zen.

If u want to move up halves is the natural step.
Many of the same tags and indicies.

Betting correlation is crucial in shoes, halves .99 betting correlation, about perfect.

Why not just upgrade hi lo with halves vs learning an entire new system?

If moving up u want halves indicies.
The indicies u want are risk averse catch 22, fab 4 if surrender game.

Halves is probably the strongest (with no side counts) in shoes and DD.

When learning, 2 card cancelling is important.
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#9
#9
ycming said:
why do you not recommend halves or zen?
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Both are great, I use ZEN, but if I was not invested I would go with Mentor or UBZ because they are just as strong...
... and UBZ is easier whereas Mentor is 'just as easy' but features greater TC granularity. zg
 
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J

joe-

Member
#10
#10
with the research ive done i think im gonna try and master the halves count. snice its the best for a 8 decker. anyone have expernice/tips/info i can look at for this system?
 
J

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
joe- said:
with the research ive done i think im gonna try and master the halves count. snice its the best for a 8 decker. anyone have expernice/tips/info i can look at for this system?
Click to expand...
I'm using Halves and I believe it will perform the best for you through practice and learning indices. The main difficulty comes from the arithmetic of the card values. I suggest counting the cards as they are being dealt. This is the simplest way I've learned how to count the system so far, and it's pretty easy once the values of the cards become automatic. Canceling the cards after they are dealt just makes things too difficult. If you wait for all the cards to be dealt, taking the time to cancel the values out will take too long, resulting in losing the count/being off by possibly 0.5-1.0 which is a big deal. This is why you need to take advantage of every second the cards are dealt.

Do NOT get upset and start to doubt yourself if the system is too hard at first. It DOES become easier, just give it time I promise.

(Find a friendly dealer to tip for better penetration)
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
new johnny b?

Eventually you should be cancelling 2 & 3 card combs.. this is where real speed is. Practice by counting down a deck 2 then 3 cards at a time.

The first step is counting a card at a time, that is an early stage.
 
J

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
blackjack avenger said:
Eventually you should be cancelling 2 & 3 card combs.. this is where real speed is. Practice by counting down a deck 2 then 3 cards at a time.

The first step is counting a card at a time, that is an early stage.
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I am relatively new to the system. Been on it for about a month now, but I'm doing what works for me. I'm sure you could pair up a 5 with three .5 value cards, and all the different variations of that, but I'm already done counting the table by the time the dealer gets to his upcard. This gives me time to focus on my play decision, check the discard tray, and estimate the TC comfortably. I'm sure a Halves master would be able to cancel values out, but I don't think it's necessary since I can easily count the table with instant recognition of the values.
 
J

joe-

Member
#14
#14
yes i am so used to pair canceling with highlow, but with .5's and 1.5s in the vaules might make pairing a bit difficult.

also i heard people double the vaules to get rid of the decimals, if u do this wouldnt it change alot in the system?

so i decided to invest in halves. yes its difficult but with time and pratice it can be masterest just like everything else.

johnny any sites/books been usefull for u? ive bought

Professional Blackjack
Blackbelt in Blackjack
 
J

johnnyb

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
joe- said:
yes i am so used to pair canceling with highlow, but with .5's and 1.5s in the vaules might make pairing a bit difficult.

also i heard people double the vaules to get rid of the decimals, if u do this wouldnt it change alot in the system?

so i decided to invest in halves. yes its difficult but with time and pratice it can be masterest just like everything else.

johnny any sites/books been usefull for u? ive bought

Professional Blackjack
Blackbelt in Blackjack
Click to expand...
You can double the tags to get rid of the fractions, but then you have to divide by half-decks to get the TC. If you want to do this, remember that the index numbers don't change (Index table in Professional Blackjack). Professional Blackjack is really all you need to be successful with the system. Read it and study.

Good luck!
 
Friendo

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
joe- said:
yes i am so used to pair canceling with highlow, but with .5's and 1.5s in the vaules might make pairing a bit difficult.
Click to expand...
It's annoying - some would say "extremely annoying" - at first, but you get used to it. Over the first few dozen hours of practice, your mind falls into shortcuts effortlessly.

For example, with four hands on the table:

K-10 8-2-8 5-2 A-5

I immediately ignore K-10 and 5-2 (cancellation) and add the 2 (0.5) to A-5 (0.5) to get 1. A few other combinations, such as "two 5s cancel three 10s" also get hardwired pretty quickly.

FWIW, I don't use Halves in practice, but the level-2 count I do use, Mentor, has me adding and subtracting 2, 3, and 4 from two-digit running counts all day, and this is just about as tiring as Halves. At least with Halves, when you see three faces, you just subtract 3 from the running count, instead of 6.

I think people are way too afraid of fractional counts, but there are some authorities, with far more experience than I'll ever have, who think that higher-level counts are not worth the bother.
 
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