CountDracula
New Member
I'm going to Vegas for the first time and will be counting and having fun. I'm intending on playing 6 deck and spreading $25-$300. Is it nescessary to move from casino to casino or at this level will they not care?
Heat in Vegas
- Thread starter CountDracula
- Start date
exgriffinman
Active Member
Depends on where you go...stick to the big stores annnd you shouldn't have a problem.CountDracula said:
My 2 cents for Count
If there are 2-3 players betting more than you, it helps. In most cases you will find exactly that and it will help you stay under the radar. At 25-300 you might want to make sure there are larger bets being placed or you will need to move after a good shoe.
You can let them know it is your first time and keep a good act going to last longer. I think you know cover well from reading your posts.
Don't pass up some good DD games, but can't stay as long as 6 deck. It is good to leave right after a scoring deal.
I have played 6 deck for 1-2 hours at that spread with others betting more and did well with no heat, but the DD games hit and run gets you to see more of Vegas and is well worth it. A 25-300 spread there will draw attention and you will need to be ready to move on. Fire 'em up.
I love Vegas.
Best to you.
Babe
If there are 2-3 players betting more than you, it helps. In most cases you will find exactly that and it will help you stay under the radar. At 25-300 you might want to make sure there are larger bets being placed or you will need to move after a good shoe.
You can let them know it is your first time and keep a good act going to last longer. I think you know cover well from reading your posts.
Don't pass up some good DD games, but can't stay as long as 6 deck. It is good to leave right after a scoring deal.
I have played 6 deck for 1-2 hours at that spread with others betting more and did well with no heat, but the DD games hit and run gets you to see more of Vegas and is well worth it. A 25-300 spread there will draw attention and you will need to be ready to move on. Fire 'em up.
I love Vegas.
Best to you.
Babe
Dyepaintball12
Well-Known Member
Don't spend too much time at the Aria and that should be fine!
You may be inclined to sit at a DD table at the nicer places with good rules and that's cool, but take your spread way down if you do.
You may be inclined to sit at a DD table at the nicer places with good rules and that's cool, but take your spread way down if you do.
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BJgenius007
Well-Known Member
Aria is a f^ck hole. Tell all your friends not play there.Dyepaintball12 said:
Tarzan
Banned
Too many scare stories
I am more paranoid in Vegas than I am in AC and other places, primarily from reading all the scary stories about the casinos being very hostile toward anyone that wins anything at a blackjack table in Vegas. I find myself "walking on eggshells" when in Vegas in recent years whereas I never worried about such things many years ago. This is because now that we have the internet I get to hear every horror story going about casinos abusing their patrons and going after anyone stacking up a few chips that they even THINK has enough brain cells to play basic strategy, much less actually counting!
Laughlin has been more of a problem (for me personally) than Vegas though. They get freaky as soon as they see a green chip hitting the table! Some of this has a lot to do with the establishment and the sort of action they are used to seeing as was mentioned.
If you are going on an occasional trip to Vegas and might not see them again for another 6 months to a year or so I would worry about some sort of casino "heat" a lot less than if you are there 3 days a week! I often wonder if I am overly paranoid from hearing too many scare stories, some of which can only be considered hearsay and are unverifiable. Think about this logically; If you don't frequent Vegas that much and after your visit might not be there for a long time to come, it's not like you are going to run out of casinos during your visit. In casinos that are used to larger action in Vegas, a $300 bet means nothing to them and is "small potatoes" as far as they are concerned.
Anyone hitting Vegas for the first time needs to take advantage of the sign up promotions! You get free gifts, matchplays, promotional chips, bonus slot dollars, etc. for each casino you sign up for a players card at! This involves seriously "pounding the pavement" but it can be fun for someone hitting Vegas for the first time and will keep you moving along, not giving the pit people and casino security enough time to want to beat you to death with baseball bats or anything like that.
Am I OVERLY paranoid from hearing all the crazy scary stories? I don't know but I like that advice about sitting next to someone that is right out of the mental institution and betting it big with a lot of money. It makes a lot of sense and might even make YOU a few cents! See? I KNEW I would learn something if I hung out here long enough!!!!!!
I am more paranoid in Vegas than I am in AC and other places, primarily from reading all the scary stories about the casinos being very hostile toward anyone that wins anything at a blackjack table in Vegas. I find myself "walking on eggshells" when in Vegas in recent years whereas I never worried about such things many years ago. This is because now that we have the internet I get to hear every horror story going about casinos abusing their patrons and going after anyone stacking up a few chips that they even THINK has enough brain cells to play basic strategy, much less actually counting!
Laughlin has been more of a problem (for me personally) than Vegas though. They get freaky as soon as they see a green chip hitting the table! Some of this has a lot to do with the establishment and the sort of action they are used to seeing as was mentioned.
If you are going on an occasional trip to Vegas and might not see them again for another 6 months to a year or so I would worry about some sort of casino "heat" a lot less than if you are there 3 days a week! I often wonder if I am overly paranoid from hearing too many scare stories, some of which can only be considered hearsay and are unverifiable. Think about this logically; If you don't frequent Vegas that much and after your visit might not be there for a long time to come, it's not like you are going to run out of casinos during your visit. In casinos that are used to larger action in Vegas, a $300 bet means nothing to them and is "small potatoes" as far as they are concerned.
Anyone hitting Vegas for the first time needs to take advantage of the sign up promotions! You get free gifts, matchplays, promotional chips, bonus slot dollars, etc. for each casino you sign up for a players card at! This involves seriously "pounding the pavement" but it can be fun for someone hitting Vegas for the first time and will keep you moving along, not giving the pit people and casino security enough time to want to beat you to death with baseball bats or anything like that.
Am I OVERLY paranoid from hearing all the crazy scary stories? I don't know but I like that advice about sitting next to someone that is right out of the mental institution and betting it big with a lot of money. It makes a lot of sense and might even make YOU a few cents! See? I KNEW I would learn something if I hung out here long enough!!!!!!
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kewljason
Well-Known Member
I have managed to avoid them as well, moo, but I am sure I am not better than dyepaintball. I might just run faster or at least sooner, though :laugh:moo321 said:Well, actually, it's quite nice. And good games. They just have a very good surveillance crew...
Although I've managed to avoid them (because I'm better than dyepaintball)
I really am amazed at Aria. Thier attitude just seems night and day from thier neighbors in the very same block from the same parent company, which I have never figured out why.
Did this surveillance crew not come from other properties?
kewljason
Well-Known Member
That's interesting tarzan. I think those of us that are used to playing AC are initially a little apprehensive when playing vegas because they can back you off or bann you, where we didn't have that threat in AC. But in reality there is absolutely no difference. If you are deemed a threat or nuisance in AC they will bet restrict you or half shoe you. If you are deemed a threat or nuisance in Vegas they will half shoe you or bann/back you off. Either way you have lost the ability to continue play, at least for a while, so one method isn't any better than the other.Tarzan said:
But this talk of abusing patrons and baseball bat beatings is just silly. left over thoughts from days gone by, before my time I guess.
Certainly not the Vegas I have come to know pretty well over the last couple years.
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Tarzan
Banned
Understanding abstract humor and sarcasm
Jason Jason Jason... There are people in this world that take anything you may say to include abstract humor and sarcasm incorporated into a given train of thought for nothing more than dramatic effect and try to equate it into it's most basic literal concepts. These are the sorts of people that can watch "South Park" and completely miss the concept of what is being conveyed, which is the most humorous part.
In reading about people's experiences in Vegas it's plain to see that casinos there have a lot more in their arsenal for dealing with "undesirables" of any kind than they do in AC and have the full blessing of law enforcement, judges, local Government, etc. in doing so. To take it to such an extreme as beating you with baseball bats is about as highly unlikely as it gets but you have read all the stories that I have about confiscations of cash and chips, being detained, being searched, having local law enforcement right in on the bandwagon with all of it, etc., etc... essentially being regarded as some sort of cheater simply because you are stacking up a few chips! You have read about Griffin, the lumping together of people "allegedly counting" right in there with cheaters and thieves, of people being detained and jailed on trumped up charges and having to retain lawyers just as I have... did you ever hear of such a thing going on in AC? Hostility and countermeasures yes but nothing to this extent... to the point of it being ridiculous.
It's difficult for me to understand how this could be good public relations for any gaming establishment to have gamblers discussing among each other or having it turn up in the media how, "In that casino they get upset and kick people out or even throw them in jail if they actually win anything". The people that MAKE THEIR LIVING "hyping it up" about counters being some sort of threat to the casinos has them so wound that they are likely to 86 a lucky ploppy that is a potential cash cow to them for their entire lifetime so they lose their action AND get to pay for the services of those who live off the fat of the land and need to keep the "hype" going--- How many "slick sticks" did that idiot in that other post sell last week? This is Salem and you have to try to avoid being burned at the stake for being a witch.
I will continue to exercise caution and "walk on eggshells" when playing in Vegas perhaps even moreso than I have to do in AC. I have heard too many shocking stories of maltreatment of casino patrons there and so I always have a list of lawyers phone numbers with me. Sue Sue Sue...
Jason Jason Jason... There are people in this world that take anything you may say to include abstract humor and sarcasm incorporated into a given train of thought for nothing more than dramatic effect and try to equate it into it's most basic literal concepts. These are the sorts of people that can watch "South Park" and completely miss the concept of what is being conveyed, which is the most humorous part.
In reading about people's experiences in Vegas it's plain to see that casinos there have a lot more in their arsenal for dealing with "undesirables" of any kind than they do in AC and have the full blessing of law enforcement, judges, local Government, etc. in doing so. To take it to such an extreme as beating you with baseball bats is about as highly unlikely as it gets but you have read all the stories that I have about confiscations of cash and chips, being detained, being searched, having local law enforcement right in on the bandwagon with all of it, etc., etc... essentially being regarded as some sort of cheater simply because you are stacking up a few chips! You have read about Griffin, the lumping together of people "allegedly counting" right in there with cheaters and thieves, of people being detained and jailed on trumped up charges and having to retain lawyers just as I have... did you ever hear of such a thing going on in AC? Hostility and countermeasures yes but nothing to this extent... to the point of it being ridiculous.
It's difficult for me to understand how this could be good public relations for any gaming establishment to have gamblers discussing among each other or having it turn up in the media how, "In that casino they get upset and kick people out or even throw them in jail if they actually win anything". The people that MAKE THEIR LIVING "hyping it up" about counters being some sort of threat to the casinos has them so wound that they are likely to 86 a lucky ploppy that is a potential cash cow to them for their entire lifetime so they lose their action AND get to pay for the services of those who live off the fat of the land and need to keep the "hype" going--- How many "slick sticks" did that idiot in that other post sell last week? This is Salem and you have to try to avoid being burned at the stake for being a witch.
I will continue to exercise caution and "walk on eggshells" when playing in Vegas perhaps even moreso than I have to do in AC. I have heard too many shocking stories of maltreatment of casino patrons there and so I always have a list of lawyers phone numbers with me. Sue Sue Sue...
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BJgenius007
Well-Known Member
Every year I visit Vegas one or two times. Before I joined this forum, I was always relaxed and enjoyed my stay. Since I joined the forum and read all the horrible stories happening to counters, I entered the casino door with extreme caution. But that only lasted about 5 minutes, they still welcome me with warm arms! The cycle may repeat each time I go to Vegas, but it diminished very quickly because I am reassured it won't happen to good people like me.Tarzan said:
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Yes, I have heard of such a story taking place in AC. Well before my time, but isn't their a story of Kenny U being nearly run down by a suspicious black vehicle outside of Resorts after a big score there back in the day? With Kenny's antics, who know the details though?Tarzan said:
It is this “full blessing of law enforcement, judges and local government” that has changed in Vegas in the last decade. Not so much law enforcement as you won't get a whole lot of help from them, but the many 6 and 7 figure judgements against casinos for such behavior including a recent quarter million judgement against IP and the evil empire just last week. In this case the casino exec/thug involved was a holdover from days gone by, involved in a similar large judgement back at his days at the Frontier. The Corporate mentality that is now in place just won't put up with this costly behavior any longer and these dinosaurs and their mentality are becoming extinct. Even the practice of back-rooming is becoming a thing of the past, being replaced by trying to embarrass the player and running him out the front door. Unfortunately this change in climate has come with a negative price and that is the deteriorating conditions as casino industry attempts to protect their games and bottom line in other ways.
Just in case I run into one of these left over dinosaurs hell bent on breaking the law and creating a big payday for me, I carry contact info for the great attorney Bob N, who is responsible for much of this change. Although I have only had the pleasure of a very brief meeting with Mr N, and one that I am sure he would not recall, I count him as part of my protection.
kewljason
Well-Known Member
There is no single answer for that question. Each location is different and needs to be evaluated independently. At some bigger strip locations your 1-12 green spread is won't even be notice any more than if you were betting red, while some other places on of just off the strip and downtown that same 1-12 spread won't be tolerated for long. At smaller local outlying casinos it becomes hard to get anything above $100 down without seeming out of place. This info is all very subjective and varies by location, time of day, day or week and who is betting what at that particular time. But in very general terms, a 1-12 or even 1-16 spread green to black is well tolerated at 6 deck games on the strip. $500 is really a magical number that you want to avoid as far as top bet.CountDracula said:
Stating that something is tolerated doesn't necessarily mean you can camp out there for 6 hours going through many bet range cycles either. I play very short sessions to avoid heat, but generally you should be able to play for an hour to 90 minutes, especially if there aren't many swings in the bet range. I wouldn't stay more than 2 or 3 times through the cycle though. And if you happen to get lucky and have a strong session with a big win, realize that too will draw additional attention.
Sounds more complicated than it is. Just look around and be vigilant. You can usually tell when heat is about to come down.
At this betting level, when heat does come down, they really just want you to stop playing and leave. If they can get you to leave on your own with a little encouragement, such as nasty stares, maybe a casual remark, or sometimes something a little less subtle like flipping through the discard rack looking at what cards have been played, that works just as well if not even better for the pit person.
creeping panther
Banned
Backoff's
I have a friend who just received a backoff that was anything but sweet and gentle. This Gent is a true gentleman and never deserved this treatment which included physical assault. In fact he had not even played at this place yet.
These things do occur and are not that rare.
I would very much like to catch the goons and the suit off the property and take them to task for their outrageous violation of this fine young man. I may even go so far as inciting a situation in the casino to pay these bast@@#@ back. You play a strong, legal, game of BJ and this is what you get,,,,I want pay back.
Remember when that pit boss nailed KJ in that bar,,I say time to nail a pit boss in a bar.:flame::whip:
CP
I have a friend who just received a backoff that was anything but sweet and gentle. This Gent is a true gentleman and never deserved this treatment which included physical assault. In fact he had not even played at this place yet.
These things do occur and are not that rare.
I would very much like to catch the goons and the suit off the property and take them to task for their outrageous violation of this fine young man. I may even go so far as inciting a situation in the casino to pay these bast@@#@ back. You play a strong, legal, game of BJ and this is what you get,
,,,I want pay back. Remember when that pit boss nailed KJ in that bar,,I say time to nail a pit boss in a bar.:flame::whip:
CP
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Did your friend's recent treatment happen in Vegas, CP? If he hadn't even played there it must have been sister property related?creeping panther said:I have a friend who just received a backoff that was anything but sweet and gentle. This Gent is a true gentleman and never deserved this treatment which included physical assault. In fact he had not even played at this place yet.
These things do occur and are not that rare.
I would very much like to catch the goons and the suit off the property and take them to task for their outrageous violation of this fine young man. I may even go so far as inciting a situation in the casino to pay these bast@@#@ back. You play a strong, legal, game of BJ and this is what you get,
Remember when that pit boss nailed KJ in that bar,,I say time to nail a pit boss in a bar.:flame::whip:
CP
I generally don't encounter those types of people or behavior. I guess I am lucky. people, even pit people generally seem to take a liking to me. I guess I am likeable.
I generally am friendly, polite and respectful and it is usually returned to me. I fully understand that these folks have a job to do and that we are competitors, but that doesn't mean I can't be civil and respectful and friendly. I just don't have all that much room for hate and negativity. I guess that's just me.
Maybe, I'm in the wrong business.
Dyepaintball12
Well-Known Member
Assault = Jackpot.creeping panther said:I have a friend who just received a backoff that was anything but sweet and gentle. This Gent is a true gentleman and never deserved this treatment which included physical assault. In fact he had not even played at this place yet.
These things do occur and are not that rare.
I would very much like to catch the goons and the suit off the property and take them to task for their outrageous violation of this fine young man. I may even go so far as inciting a situation in the casino to pay these bast@@#@ back. You play a strong, legal, game of BJ and this is what you get,
Remember when that pit boss nailed KJ in that bar,,I say time to nail a pit boss in a bar.:flame::whip:
CP
Tarzan,Tarzan said:
I can understand why you might worry, but truth be told, you have some nice camouflage which may be able to buy you some cover. The worst thing I think you can do is go in with the fear of being caught because you may unknowingly display that fear and tip them off. Just play your game and react accordingly. JMHO.
exgriffinman
Active Member
Paranoia
I have read this thread, Yes its true you can feel the heat in Vegas but you can feel heat anywhere including AC. During the entire time that I was in the business and related to the business I have never seen anyone get beat up. I have seen people get back roomed but this practice is dying and casinos are satisfied with an 86 or back off. If you bet according to the action that is around you and the place your playing at, I dont see having something drastic happen to you. The last beating I heard of was before my time at the Hoseshoe, Three counters got the crap beat out of them...One of the counters sued the horseshoe and won, He's sittin pretty these days and is reportedly still playing. There was also a mis-truth on this thread, Someone said that Griffin lumps card counters in with cheaters and theives. A typical Griffin page will ahve all on one sheet but does not associate them together, instead labelling them seperate...
I have read this thread, Yes its true you can feel the heat in Vegas but you can feel heat anywhere including AC. During the entire time that I was in the business and related to the business I have never seen anyone get beat up. I have seen people get back roomed but this practice is dying and casinos are satisfied with an 86 or back off. If you bet according to the action that is around you and the place your playing at, I dont see having something drastic happen to you. The last beating I heard of was before my time at the Hoseshoe, Three counters got the crap beat out of them...One of the counters sued the horseshoe and won, He's sittin pretty these days and is reportedly still playing. There was also a mis-truth on this thread, Someone said that Griffin lumps card counters in with cheaters and theives. A typical Griffin page will ahve all on one sheet but does not associate them together, instead labelling them seperate...