Help explaining this to family

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#1
Hey everyone! I am new to the card counting thing. I have read a lot about card counting and have seemed to pick it up rather fast. Basics, I sure have not demolished anything at high levels. I was curious how you all have explained card counting to your significant others. My boyfriend is failing to see how it can be such an advantage. I am catching tons of grief from him and my family about the whole thing: from its' still gambling to not understanding the rise and fall that happens through out the shoe. Any ideas? Thanks so much!! I could use any help, I love it, and would like at least for my boyfriend to back me up. I would even be happy if he just pretended to be dealer for practice! :(
 
#2
Koseao said:
Hey everyone! I am new to the card counting thing. I have read a lot about card counting and have seemed to pick it up rather fast. Basics, I sure have not demolished anything at high levels. I was curious how you all have explained card counting to your significant others. My boyfriend is failing to see how it can be such an advantage. I am catching tons of grief from him and my family about the whole thing: from its' still gambling to not understanding the rise and fall that happens through out the shoe. Any ideas? Thanks so much!! I could use any help, I love it, and would like at least for my boyfriend to back me up. I would even be happy if he just pretended to be dealer for practice! :(
Might not be an area where the two of you can talk. This is not because your relationship is necessarily weak. So don't blame yourself. Problem is that most people do not understand card counting and will diss you out of hand.

Strictly from my own perspective I do not tell my friends much about my counting. For two reasons:

1. As a counter I am cultivating a secret. Like "counter intelligence" (pun intended). I do not want anyone to spread the word that "Irish counts cards" only to find my name and picture plastered all over Nevada and CA casinos.

2. If I tell a close friend, like a girlfriend, and then proceed to lose a couple hundred units she no doubt will conclude that "blackjack is just for compulsive gamblers" and this will sour the relationship. That and provide more bad publicity to my network of friends.

By it's very nature this game is your "little secret".

Tell a friend? They will just think you are breaking the law! They don't know any better.

So telling people you card count is a lot like telling them you like to shoplift. They won't be able to differentiate between the two.

So: Mums the word. Live with it.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#3
Koseao said:
Hey everyone! I am new to the card counting thing. I have read a lot about card counting and have seemed to pick it up rather fast. Basics, I sure have not demolished anything at high levels. I was curious how you all have explained card counting to your significant others. My boyfriend is failing to see how it can be such an advantage. I am catching tons of grief from him and my family about the whole thing: from its' still gambling to not understanding the rise and fall that happens through out the shoe. Any ideas? Thanks so much!! I could use any help, I love it, and would like at least for my boyfriend to back me up. I would even be happy if he just pretended to be dealer for practice! :(
Do not listen to what Irish said. While secrecy amongst strangers will be useful, trust is a very important thing in relationships with a significant other, family, etc. Those that dont understand the game are usually the ones that dont understand statistics and require real results to prove the effectiveness of counting. If you show them your logs of the game (assuming you have played enough to show a long term advantage), that may help persuade them.

Try explaining that it is not very different from stocks, real estate, and other kinds of investments. You study the game and you calculate if there is a statistical advantage that is worth your time/money. If CC is gambling, so is stock broking (which some may agree with). Just because it is done at a casino doesn't make it illigitimate.

One tactic that, while doesn't always work in the way you would want it to, occasionally dissuades them from arguing, is to try and bombard them with statistical explanations, show them CBJN, and huge data compilations and the like, and hope that they get the gist that this isn't something you just do, and requires a lot of study and in depth knowledge of the game. Sometimes they will just get intimidated and assume that you know what you are doing :laugh:
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#4
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
1. As a counter I am cultivating a secret. Like "counter intelligence" (pun intended). I do not want anyone to spread the word that "Irish counts cards" only to find my name and picture plastered all over Nevada and CA casinos.
I dont know about you, but I am not one to really be good friends with those that will just tell the world about my secrets. Explain to them that this isn't something you want going around. If they are not trustworthy, dont tell them.

2. If I tell a close friend, like a girlfriend, and then proceed to lose a couple hundred units she no doubt will conclude that "blackjack is just for compulsive gamblers" and this will sour the relationship. That and provide more bad publicity to my network of friends.
Dont tell them about every single result. Explain to them "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose". Show them your long term results rather than short term.

Tell a friend? They will just think you are breaking the law! They don't know any better.
Then tell them its not breaking the law. Explain how in AC, its actually ILLEGAL to kick someone out for counting cards. Recent legislation has passed for the state of Indiana that also says casinos cannot kick people out for any reason they want (possibly including counters?). Nowhere in the US is counting illegal.

So telling people you card count is a lot like telling them you like to shoplift. They won't be able to differentiate between the two.

So: Mums the word. Live with it.
Except not. Yes, there has to be some secrecy when counting. Yes, you dont want the world to know that you count, for there is a chance that this info will somehow get to a casino. Yes, there are some people that will frown on CC. But if this is something that is a part of your life, it will be difficult to
associate with others in the non-counting world. Don't tell everyone you know, but it is important that close friends and family trust you in what you are doing and that it is not about gambling.
 
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#5
If you MUST tell your significant other about card counting do it this way:

Pay his rent or major utility bill with profits from a favorable session at the tables. Actions speak louder than explanations.


Other than that? There is no explaining what most people mistakenly perceive as stealing. "Oh those poor poor casinos"
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#6
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
If you MUST tell your significant other about card counting do it this way:

Pay his rent or major utility bill with profits from a favorable session at the tables. Actions speak louder than explanations.


Other than that? There is no explaining what most people mistakenly perceive as stealing. "Oh those poor poor casinos"
I wouldn't say most people perceive it as stealing. Every close friend and family member I have told has been impressed. The publicity of the movie "21" has legitimized card counting among the masses, I believe.

I would certainly not feel obligated to pay for my girlfriend's rent to prove anything. No way.

Unless we lived together! :laugh:
 
#7
Blue Efficacy said:
I wouldn't say most people perceive it as stealing. Every close friend and family member I have told has been impressed. The publicity of the movie "21" has legitimized card counting among the masses, I believe.

I would certainly not feel obligated to pay for my girlfriend's rent to prove anything. No way.

Unless we lived together! :laugh:
OK but when the word gets around someone will think something stupid about card counting. Or you can be unfairly pegged as a gambler. There's just no way to predict the outcome.

So i say keep it a secret. Otherwise what benefit is there to some kid saying:

"Hey look, mom's a spy".


See what i mean?

Keep this one to yourself my friends.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#8
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
OK but when the word gets around someone will think something stupid about card counting. Or you can be unfairly pegged as a gambler. There's just no way to predict the outcome.

So i say keep it a secret. Otherwise what benefit is there to some kid saying:

"Hey look, mom's a spy".


See what i mean?

Keep this one to yourself my friends.
And here YOU are predicting the outcomes. The benefit has nothing to do with your children telling people. The benefit is in the trust that develops between people close to you. Having a secret lifestyle is hard on people. What are you going to say when you are gone on a weekend casino trip? "Im going to the Pocanos?" If you are discovered, the damage can be worse than being caught at a casino. Besides, even those that have been caught at a casino are able to come back due to the fact that casino employees just aren't sharp enough to kick out counters even though they have been found before. There are many ways around it. What is more important? Blackjack or your personal relationships?
 
#9
SleightOfHand said:
And here YOU are predicting the outcomes. The benefit has nothing to do with your children telling people. The benefit is in the trust that develops between people close to you. Having a secret lifestyle is hard on people. What are you going to say when you are gone on a weekend casino trip? "Im going to the Pocanos?" If you are discovered, the damage can be worse than being caught at a casino. Besides, even those that have been caught at a casino are able to come back due to the fact that casino employees just aren't sharp enough to kick out counters even though they have been found before. There are many ways around it. What is more important? Blackjack or your personal relationships?
It all depends. Spending a weekend at a casino resort is perfectly acceptable to most people. Spending 12 hours at a table, with the amount of money we cycle through a game, fully intending to earn money, to the uninitiated appears as compulsive gambling. And when the heat comes down and things get nasty, they're going to wonder just what the F you're doing and why you're doing it. Hardcore AP gets very gritty, very edgy at times.

Maybe a happy medium is to acknowledge we spend a lot of time in casinos but share the details just among us AP's. This is not for them, not for most people. I mean, it's one thing to tell someone you were in the Marines, fully another thing to tell them how you crushed someone's skull with your boot in combat. Or if you're a corrections officer, you might not want to say the things inmates do to each other and themselves. That's not something you talk about with people who aren't of the same background, and you're not being secretive or dishonest by not talking about that stuff, just prudent.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#10
Automatic Monkey said:
It all depends. Spending a weekend at a casino resort is perfectly acceptable to most people. Spending 12 hours at a table, with the amount of money we cycle through a game, fully intending to earn money, to the uninitiated appears as compulsive gambling. And when the heat comes down and things get nasty, they're going to wonder just what the F you're doing and why you're doing it. Hardcore AP gets very gritty, very edgy at times.

Maybe a happy medium is to acknowledge we spend a lot of time in casinos but share the details just among us AP's. This is not for them, not for most people. I mean, it's one thing to tell someone you were in the Marines, fully another thing to tell them how you crushed someone's skull with your boot in combat. Or if you're a corrections officer, you might not want to say the things inmates do to each other and themselves. That's not something you talk about with people who aren't of the same background, and you're not being secretive or dishonest by not talking about that stuff, just prudent.
Yea I wasn't saying that we should tell them all the dirty details. I was talking more about how we should at least mention what we do and that we shouldn't be keeping it a secret from said individuals. The trust that, at least should exist, is important to keep with those you have close relationships with; and keeping secrets are not the best way to develop them. Of course there are some secrets that you may want to keep, but I don't feel that (the general aspects of) counting cards should be one of them.
 
#11
A certain amount of privacy is important in relationships. Too much secrecy is a burden. Separate checking/bank accounts can save a marriage.

Besides the whole act we display in a casino is an intentional deception. I've chosen to be "just another Irish drunk". Not looking totally inebriated but appearing enough jolly that it creates a decoy. Also allows me to get away with a little extra flirting with the female dealers and beer tenders.

In fact i don't drink at all.

So I say if you can't keep a secret to a spouse about your blackjack game then it'll make for a disadvantage at the tables.
 

ExhibitCAA

Well-Known Member
#12
I have been in this position many times, with SO's of different backgrounds and education levels. First of all, Irish's advice is ridiculous (if for no other reason than you'll need your SO's help in the casino at some point in the future). It's one thing to keep mum when meeting neighbors or colleagues from your day job, but it is counterproductive, futile, and unnecessary to attempt to keep this "secret" from your SO.

Here are some things you should do:
1. Go rent the movie "21" and watch it together. This should clear up the issue of legality and the issue of "it's still gambling," and show that this is a by-the-numbers endeavor, like other forms of investment.

2. You should consider watching the movie "Rounders" together, but you should probably watch the movie alone first. The movie addresses this exact issue, with Matt Damon trying to show his girlfriend that this isn't gambling. However, in the end the bridge just cannot be crossed and they break up, with Matt Damon leaving to find his game in Vegas. So this may not have the happy ending that you want to watch with your SO. But watch the movie yourself and decide.

3. Once you complete Step #1, then you have to dispel the "MIT Myth" with your SO. This can be accomplished in two ways. First, you could buy Exhibit CAA and make your SO read the pages -21 thru 0. Second, you should show your SO a demonstration. A demonstration of skill can sometimes work as a substitute for actual results, at least for a while. If your SO can see that you actually have information that the average idiot does not, then he may be convinced that you actually have an edge. (On my first playing trip with a particular girl about ten years ago, she was losing confidence as we were losing, despite my protests that this was merely a brief spell of bad luck. When I whispered into her ear that the dealer had a Queen-Ten-Three in the hole and then the dealer flipped over Queen-Ten-Three, then she became an instant believer, even though we lost the hand.) In your case, the demonstration is this (but practice on your own to make sure that you won't fail): have your SO deal 51 cards of a single deck (or 311 cards of a 6-deck shoe), and then you tell him whether the last card is High, Medium, or Low (according to your count). This simple demonstration shows that this isn't just random gambling.

4. The problem that no one has mentioned, but which I think is actually your major underlying problem, even though your SO would never admit this, and you might even defend him and not admit it either, is the following thought process:
A. To count cards, you need to be some genius, like Rain Man or MIT geeks.
B. My girlfriend thinks she can count cards.
C. I know that I cannot count cards.
D. If the facts of A, B, and C are true, then my girlfriend is smarter than me, or at least she thinks she's smarter than me.
E. Ego meltdown!
F. To avoid Step E, go back to Step B, and tell girlfriend she is a gambling fool.

How can your boyfriend, who, if he is from the Midwest where men are supposed to wear the pants and women are sweethearts, come to grips with your surpassing of his ability in an area involving intelligence, especially in a field (playing cards) that is traditionally dominated by men? He cannot.

Here is how to solve this problem. First, you have to downplay the difficulty of counting cards. You have to dispel Step A of the thought process above. It may help to suggest that your arguments are from external sources, and not your own creation, i.e., instead of "Counting cards is actually not that complicated," say "According to this book by Kevin Blackwood, counting cards is actually not that complicated." Attack Step B by showing your boyfriend that learning this is difficult for you (even if you pick it up easily), and you need to work hard at it and practice. If you show him that you pick it up too easily, he will be intimidated about joining you in this venture. Attack Steps B/C/D/E with the following ploy: Get your boyfriend involved, by enlisting his help to handle a piece that is "too hard" for you. In particular, tell him after some practice that you think you can count the HiLo fairly competently, but that it would help your overall win rate if someone could do the Insurance Count on the side. Tell him that if he could learn the Insurance Count, your casino sessions would be stronger, but that it's too much for you to handle, especially since it's a 2-level count, compared to your simple 1-level HiLo count. But you're confident that your smart boyfriend can handle the 2-level count. Now, you and I know that the Insurance Count is trivially easy, so your boyfriend will have no problem succeeding with it after minor practice, and then he will have the satisfaction of knowing a 2-level count, while you use only a 1-level count. Tell him that buying insurance is the most important play that a card counter can make, and that his contribution with the Insurance Count is critical.

The other things you will need to do will indeed depend on what your SO's real agenda is. I'm quite confident that competitiveness with you is part of it, even if neither of you will admit it. But there may be other issues as well. He might indeed fear that you are getting yourself into a big scam that will cause you to gamble away all your money ...

And he might be right!

Another tip: When trying to convince a skeptical SO of the validity of your system, it DOES become important to lock in wins, and manipulate your session-stopping-points accordingly. For instance, let's say that you are ahead $1000 and conditions are still good. Most books, including mine, will say that you should continue to play if conditions are good. However, in your case, having a supportive SO who allows you to play in the future (or who joins you to play) is important to your lifetime EV, so you should probably just lock in the $1000 win and go home. Civilians will be MUCH more easily convinced if you come home 8 out of 10 times as a winner. In the distant future, when your SO is on board, you won't have to distort your sessions in this way anymore. Also, if you are ahead $1000, and then continue to play and end up losing, this will confirm your SO's (bogus) belief that you are just a gambler who will give it all back in the end and who does not apply proper "money management." If you get home with the $1000 win, you and your SO will both be in a good mood. In accordance with downplaying your own abilities in Step B, you should state that according to Blackwood, your expected win from the session was only $400, so the $1000 win was a bit lucky, too.

Another tip: You should try to Wong out a lot, as this will decrease your variance. By avoiding huge swings, your SO and others will be more comfortable with your venture, since it won't look like wanton gambling.

Let us know how things work out. I'm quite curious.
 
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psyduck

Well-Known Member
#13
Let's face it. Even with card counting, luck is still a big factor in the outcome of any individual trip. The best way to convince non-believers is to show them the money. However, this is really hard to do (at least for me) in a short period of time for a weekend player experimenting with small bets.

For me, if I cannot show a steady upward trend with small bets, I will not risk large amount of money.
 
#14
I can tell that no one here has ever done any special ops or covert activities...

There is just no need to tell anyone you card count. Opens up a door where all kinds of security is compromised. And there ius no going back to where you once came.

Try this: tell you S/O you have studied card playing and are out to have fun at the casino. And that you have budgeted a certain amount of money for recreation.

Do that and after your wins become common the spouse will take an interest.
 

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#15
Blue Efficacy said:
I wouldn't say most people perceive it as stealing. Every close friend and family member I have told has been impressed. The publicity of the movie "21" has legitimized card counting among the masses, I believe.

I would certainly not feel obligated to pay for my girlfriend's rent to prove anything. No way.

Unless we lived together! :laugh:
Ha. I agree, I would never pay for his rent with the money I make with it- at least not to prove a point. I would hope that he could gather the idea when he looks at my stats. Although the swing of things is unfathomable to him. He does not understand the fact is that sometimes you might lose 200 or more. Thats when all of a sudden I am playing something pointless and unsafe and it is just a joke to count cards to him. That's why I didn't know how to prove to him that it is a profitable fun thing to do. I will give him time. All I want is for him to do it with me so I don't do it alone! Makes betting scales ridiculously small and hard.
 

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#16
AnIrishmannot2brite said:
I can tell that no one here has ever done any special ops or covert activities...

There is just no need to tell anyone you card count. Opens up a door where all kinds of security is compromised. And there ius no going back to where you once came.

Try this: tell you S/O you have studied card playing and are out to have fun at the casino. And that you have budgeted a certain amount of money for recreation.

Do that and after your wins become common the spouse will take an interest.
That feels like lying to me. How then do you come out and say, "hey, all this time I have been telling you it was just random luck and a lot of recreation, I have secretly been counting and did not tell you." I rather not slap my bf in the face. I dont go and tell my friends, I never trust them anyway. However, the person for whom I trust my life with I might as well trust him with the fact I use my mind to beat a system. I would think that couldn't turn him off. Never brag about it to random people- I agree with you there friend, however, maybe not be so paranoid when it comes to someone you are with. Parents don't need to know. Agreed. The person you are with, should probably know. Besides if he tells, that means I would be better off without him. Either way, I was just trying to find a way to get him to hop aboard with the idea instead of thinking I waste time and money plus a lot of effort. Thanks for all your help guys!
 

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#17
psyduck said:
Let's face it. Even with card counting, luck is still a big factor in the outcome of any individual trip. The best way to convince non-believers is to show them the money. However, this is really hard to do (at least for me) in a short period of time for a weekend player experimenting with small bets.

For me, if I cannot show a steady upward trend with small bets, I will not risk large amount of money.
Yes, I understand how you feel. It is hard for me to prove that I make money and don't lose all my money when I am unable to make large sums (large enough for someone who thinks real life is like the movies and after a weekend, I am now some sort of millionaire. This is what they all assume.) when I can't bet large sums when counts high because my min bet is $5. To go from $5 to $50 looks suspicious. It's not that I don't want to bet a lot, one day I hope to. However, now I am stuck pussyfooting around
 
#18
Being open with your SO is crucial. Besides, as CAA implied, having a SO at the tables with you is a fantastic ruse for a variety of things. My friends and family are aware that I'm interested in AP, but I can't think of a single one that doubts me. Why? It's dependent on how you treat the situation. If you're purposely secretive and vague, it's as if you have something to hide, and people can sense this. If you're open and straightforward about your new hobby, people can sense your confidence. Note: it helps to have a solid background of relatively good judgement!

2 examples: A close friend of many years would "tease" me every time I mentioned any sort of gambling activity, joking that I was a compulsive gambler. After a while, this passive-aggressive "joke" was getting on my nerves, so I asked him a few questions. What's my lifetime loss on gambling? How many times have I gambled (non-advantage) in my entire life? How does he explain the times that he has personally seen me at local joints not playing simply because I couldn't find sufficient conditions to play? He know realizes that I'm not very interested in gambling, especially not for any real amount of money.

My mother, predictably, became very concerned when she learned that I was playing blackjack. She's about as illogical as they come, so I knew making her comfortable with it wasn't going to be easy. Again, I pointed out that I hadn't yet made a habit of pursuing questionable pastimes (well, advantage gambling: maybe this last one isn't my strongest point!), and she was forced to admit that my judgement is usually very sound. I then took the time to explain to her in very basic terms how this kind of stuff works and loaned her a copy of "Blackbelt in BJ," with the chapter on problem gambling bookmarked for contrast. This made her feel more comfortable.

On a lighter note: I use my parents' address for receiving packages, and when my copy of Exhibit CAA came in, I pointed to the millions of complex charts and said, "see Mom, why would someone go through all the trouble to create all of this if there was nothing to it?" She correctly realized that only an insane person would go to the trouble ;) !
 

Koseao

Well-Known Member
#19
ExhibitCAA said:
I have been in this position many times, with SO's of different backgrounds and education levels. First of all, Irish's advice is ridiculous (if for no other reason than you'll need your SO's help in the casino at some point in the future). It's one thing to keep mum when meeting neighbors or colleagues from your day job, but it is counterproductive, futile, and unnecessary to attempt to keep this "secret" from your SO.

Here are some things you should do:
1. Go rent the movie "21" and watch it together. This should clear up the issue of legality and the issue of "it's still gambling," and show that this is a by-the-numbers endeavor, like other forms of investment.

2. You should consider watching the movie "Rounders" together, but you should probably watch the movie alone first. The movie addresses this exact issue, with Matt Damon trying to show his girlfriend that this isn't gambling. However, in the end the bridge just cannot be crossed and they break up, with Matt Damon leaving to find his game in Vegas. So this may not have the happy ending that you want to watch with your SO. But watch the movie yourself and decide.

3. Once you complete Step #1, then you have to dispel the "MIT Myth" with your SO. This can be accomplished in two ways. First, you could buy Exhibit CAA and make your SO read the pages -21 thru 0. Second, you should show your SO a demonstration. A demonstration of skill can sometimes work as a substitute for actual results, at least for a while. If your SO can see that you actually have information that the average idiot does not, then he may be convinced that you actually have an edge. (On my first playing trip with a particular girl about ten years ago, she was losing confidence as we were losing, despite my protests that this was merely a brief spell of bad luck. When I whispered into her ear that the dealer had a Queen-Ten-Three in the hole and then the dealer flipped over Queen-Ten-Three, then she became an instant believer, even though we lost the hand.) In your case, the demonstration is this (but practice on your own to make sure that you won't fail): have your SO deal 51 cards of a single deck (or 311 cards of a 6-deck shoe), and then you tell him whether the last card is High, Medium, or Low (according to your count). This simple demonstration shows that this isn't just random gambling.

4. The problem that no one has mentioned, but which I think is actually your major underlying problem, even though your SO would never admit this, and you might even defend him and not admit it either, is the following thought process:
A. To count cards, you need to be some genius, like Rain Man or MIT geeks.
B. My girlfriend thinks she can count cards.
C. I know that I cannot count cards.
D. If the facts of A, B, and C are true, then my girlfriend is smarter than me, or at least she thinks she's smarter than me.
E. Ego meltdown!
F. To avoid Step E, go back to Step B, and tell girlfriend she is a gambling fool.

How can your boyfriend, who, if he is from the Midwest where men are supposed to wear the pants and women are sweethearts, come to grips with your surpassing of his ability in an area involving intelligence, especially in a field (playing cards) that is traditionally dominated by men? He cannot.

Here is how to solve this problem. First, you have to downplay the difficulty of counting cards. You have to dispel Step A of the thought process above. It may help to suggest that your arguments are from external sources, and not your own creation, i.e., instead of "Counting cards is actually not that complicated," say "According to this book by Kevin Blackwood, counting cards is actually not that complicated." Attack Step B by showing your boyfriend that learning this is difficult for you (even if you pick it up easily), and you need to work hard at it and practice. If you show him that you pick it up too easily, he will be intimidated about joining you in this venture. Attack Steps B/C/D/E with the following ploy: Get your boyfriend involved, by enlisting his help to handle a piece that is "too hard" for you. In particular, tell him after some practice that you think you can count the HiLo fairly competently, but that it would help your overall win rate if someone could do the Insurance Count on the side. Tell him that if he could learn the Insurance Count, your casino sessions would be stronger, but that it's too much for you to handle, especially since it's a 2-level count, compared to your simple 1-level HiLo count. But you're confident that your smart boyfriend can handle the 2-level count. Now, you and I know that the Insurance Count is trivially easy, so your boyfriend will have no problem succeeding with it after minor practice, and then he will have the satisfaction of knowing a 2-level count, while you use only a 1-level count. Tell him that buying insurance is the most important play that a card counter can make, and that his contribution with the Insurance Count is critical.

The other things you will need to do will indeed depend on what your SO's real agenda is. I'm quite confident that competitiveness with you is part of it, even if neither of you will admit it. But there may be other issues as well. He might indeed fear that you are getting yourself into a big scam that will cause you to gamble away all your money ...

And he might be right!

Another tip: When trying to convince a skeptical SO of the validity of your system, it DOES become important to lock in wins, and manipulate your session-stopping-points accordingly. For instance, let's say that you are ahead $1000 and conditions are still good. Most books, including mine, will say that you should continue to play if conditions are good. However, in your case, having a supportive SO who allows you to play in the future (or who joins you to play) is important to your lifetime EV, so you should probably just lock in the $1000 win and go home. Civilians will be MUCH more easily convinced if you come home 8 out of 10 times as a winner. In the distant future, when your SO is on board, you won't have to distort your sessions in this way anymore. Also, if you are ahead $1000, and then continue to play and end up losing, this will confirm your SO's (bogus) belief that you are just a gambler who will give it all back in the end and who does not apply proper "money management." If you get home with the $1000 win, you and your SO will both be in a good mood. In accordance with downplaying your own abilities in Step B, you should state that according to Blackwood, your expected win from the session was only $400, so the $1000 win was a bit lucky, too.

Another tip: You should try to Wong out a lot, as this will decrease your variance. By avoiding huge swings, your SO and others will be more comfortable with your venture, since it won't look like wanton gambling.

Let us know how things work out. I'm quite curious.
Thank you so much, that is exactly what I was looking for. You brought up a point I had never thought about- he might feel like I am trying be be better than him and it could feel like I am emasculating him. I am definitely not trying to be that person! I am no genius, but certain things come easily to me. Yes, I know about how losing some is no big thing, to him it is a sign that I just failed. I think you're right if I just go home ahead (even if I should stay if the conditions still good) then it will appear I am always up swing. I'd like him to play- I hate doing it alone most the time. I will try all your advice, it was perfect! Thank you again, and I will surely keep you posted. I HOPE with good news ;)
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#20
Treading on thin ice here.

The vast majority of people do NOT hold that Card Counting is a worthwhile endeavor.

This because it is seen as an activity that is highly materialistic and "money-grubbing", inasmuch as nothing of value is produce or accomplished and society in no way benefits from the activity. It fails the test of being "socially redeeming."

Obviously I do not conform to this mindset but I have found that it is extremely commonplace, especially among the more educated.

Years ago, a woman (I was cohabiting with) I informed re Card Counting. She was (seemingly) accepting of it, albeit with an insouciant shrug; until I took her to the Borgata.

She actually freaked out. She could not cope with some inner voice that was telling her that we should be spending our time growing vegetables or campaigning for a progressive politician, or demonstrating for some social cause.

Finally, after 2 (legal) marriages and many other serious relationships, (3 years ago) I married my current spouse in Las Vegas. Twenty minutes later we were seated at a poker table together. She has no problem with me hopping a jet and taking off for parts unknown on little notice. She understands that if I find conditions to my liking that a LOT of hrs. / days may be spent playing silly card games. Ahhh. ;)
 
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