hi opt II indices, anyone?

Hi-Opt II Indices Located.

pokerface said:
i can't find them anywhere, not even in the worlds greatest blackjack book.i'm thinking about changing system:(
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Found them HERE!

Hi-Opt II. {PCS/L2}. (Lance Humble) (c1976). This count, introduced a few years after Hi-Opt I, was considered by many to be the most powerful card counting system on the market at the time. In addition to the regular count, players were advised to keep a side count of 8's and 9's in addition to aces. See Steppine Count.

A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
0 1 1 2 2 1 1 0 0 -2

BC = .91 PE = .67

[80 Revere Playing Blackjack as a Business 177]
[3/81 Snyder Blackjack Forum 15]
[87 Humble World's Greatest Blackjack Book]
 
I've got the indices from -20 to +20 at home. I'll try to send them to you today. What sort of games are you playing (decks, rules, blah blah blah).

Although, you are probably better of using a different system anyway. The Hi-Opt systems require an ace side count which isn't really worth the effort in most games. Using an ace-reckoned count is easier and often more accurate. Systems like HiLo and KO are very easy and very powerful. If you want a level 2 system, Zen is very good (either balanced or unbalanced).

-Sonny-
 
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wonderful!!!
i preferr vegas rules, no more than 4 decks, no less than 75% penetration
snyder says something that ace counts are unnessecary and wont give you more than one 10th of a percent advantage? so i just dont count aces.
and counting 9s and 8?!!!!! my understanding is that u can take the 8s out of the deck without affecting the game
im thinking about the hi lo lite since it is the best system for a shuffle tracker
 
by the way i'm thinking about using lots of different systems, (for different games) and if you have more than 1 you can change when the count turns 0 to confuse surveillance.
but ur right, ace-reconed makes more sense
 
pokerface said:
by the way i'm thinking about using lots of different systems, (for different games) and if you have more than 1 you can change when the count turns 0 to confuse surveillance.
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Using several systems can get confusing and may lead to many errors at the tables. You will find yourself “accidentally” counting the wrong cards or using the playing indices for the wrong system. It is better to stick with one system and learn it completely, especially in the beginning.

As far as surveillance goes, it’s not going to confuse them at all. All systems will have you raising your bets at approximately the same time. Someone using HiLo will still be able to spot someone using Hi-Opt II (or any other system) very easily. You won’t be fooling the surveillance software by switching systems.

-Sonny-
 
pokerface said:
snyder says something that ace counts are unnessecary and wont give you more than one 10th of a percent advantage? so i just dont count aces.
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Not using the side count with the Hi-Opt systems is a big mistake. The betting correlation, which is usually the most important factor, goes way down(88% for Hi-Opt I and 91% for Hi-Opt II, compared to 97% for HiLo). Hi-Opt systems without the side count will perform worse than almost any other system in most cases. The ace is the most important card in the game so it is very important to count it.

pokerface said:
and counting 9s and 8?!!!!! my understanding is that u can take the 8s out of the deck without affecting the game
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Right. The 8 and 9 are very neutral for betting purposes.

-Sonny-
 
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Sonny said:
Not using the side count with the Hi-Opt systems is a big mistake. The betting correlation, which is usually the most important factor, goes way down(88% for Hi-Opt I and 91% for Hi-Opt II, compared to 97% for HiLo). Hi-Opt systems without the side count will perform worse than almost any other system in most cases.
-Sonny-
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Not using an Ace SC with Hi-Opt II certainly reduces your SCORE. But it will still be better than HiLo.

The indexes can be found in "Hi-Opt II System for Winning at Casino Blackjack" by Julian Braun and Lance Humble. They are also in the free demos of any of my BJ software.
 
QFIT said:
Not using an Ace SC with Hi-Opt II certainly reduces your SCORE. But it will still be better than HiLo.
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Really? I guess the PE and IC are still pretty high, but I would have though that the weaker BC would have a much bigger effect than it does. You learn something new every day. :)

-Sonny-
 
ok....
not using the sc feels a bit wacko but i think the book says its optional (?)
anyway i guess sonny is right that one system is enough considering how many indices there are. so since shuffle tracking is what i want to do i guess i better take the hi lo lite. what do you guys think?:confused:
 
Personally i feel that the Hi/Lo system is the way to go if shuffle tracking is what you want to do. I also think that for the most part, shuffle tracking is less taxing than keeping side counts, and a lot more rewarding in the long run lol. I'm sure many would disagree just down to the level of practice to get you eye atuned to the level of accuracy, but once mastered it's far less cumbersom than keeping seperate counts running.

RJT.
 
I transitioned from Hi-Opt II to Zen and the transition was pretty straight forward. A few changes in my count and I was set. You could even use the indices from Hi Opt II without much variance. You should read Zen's interview regarding changing indice values slightly in order to memorize more of them.

I've had better results with Zen than I did with HO2. I only play positive decks, so I focused specifically on all the positive count index plays.
 
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