Hit after doubling

[San]

Hi,

My local casino,which is in South Korea, has a variation of BJ. The rules are very similar to Spanish 21 and all Ten cards are removed just like Spanish 21. They call it Seven Luck 21. The variation has a very interesting rule, it allows players to hit after doubling. For example, I get A2 vs dealer 7. I double and draw another ace, which makes a soft 14. Now, I'm allowed to hit more cards until I stay. I don't think I can do it in Pontoon or Spanish 21.

With this rule, I believe I should double more often, like A2, A3 against 7, or 8,9 against 7. I checked Stanford Wong's Professional BJ but I couldn't find any index to this rule. I'd appreciate if someone could help me to find the index and any book I can refer to, thanks.

San

 

[daddybo]

Hi,

My local casino,which is in South Korea, has a variation of BJ. The rules are very similar to Spanish 21 and all Ten cards are removed just like Spanish 21. They call it Seven Luck 21. The variation has a very interesting rule, it allows players to hit after doubling. For example, I get A2 vs dealer 7. I double and draw another ace, which makes a soft 14. Now, I'm allowed to hit more cards until I stay. I don't think I can do it in Pontoon or Spanish 21.

With this rule, I believe I should double more often, like A2, A3 against 7, or 8,9 against 7. I checked Stanford Wong's Professional BJ but I couldn't find any index to this rule. I'd appreciate if someone could help me to find the index and any book I can refer to, thanks.

San

Interesting. But I'm not really sure you would double more often. ( I haven't got my mind wrapped around it yet.) But this rule would surely make doubling less risky. It really gives you the benefit of taking a bad double and possibly making it into a good hand. Below is a link for Spanish 21 basic strategies. (you may already know these)

http://wizardofodds.com/spanish21


Also can you double on any number of cards? ... Can you redouble? Would you be counting or playing basic strategy?

-db

 

[San]

Interesting. But I'm not really sure you would double more often. ( I haven't got my mind wrapped around it yet.) But this rule would surely make doubling less risky. It really gives you the benefit of taking a bad double and possibly making it into a good hand. Below is a link for Spanish 21 basic strategies. (you may already know these)

http://wizardofodds.com/spanish21


Also can you double on any number of cards? ... Can you redouble? Would you be counting or playing basic strategy?

-db

Hi Daddybo,

Thanks. Actually, I checked the website before but I couldn't find the rule. I know redouble is allowed is some Spanish 21 and I can do it in Seven Luck 21, too. The difference is, in Spanish 21, I need to redouble to hit another card after doubling. If I don't redouble, I can't hit another card. In SL21, I don't need to redouble to hit another card. In other words, I don't need to wager more money to get another card.

What's I'm thinking is, if the expected value of certain hands are positive, I should double on them, like A2 against 7. If I double and draw a 9, which makes hard 12, I still can hit another card and have pretty good chance to make it a decent hand.

I'd appreciate if you could help me on this, thanks.

San

 

[San]

Interesting. But I'm not really sure you would double more often. ( I haven't got my mind wrapped around it yet.) But this rule would surely make doubling less risky. It really gives you the benefit of taking a bad double and possibly making it into a good hand. Below is a link for Spanish 21 basic strategies. (you may already know these)

http://wizardofodds.com/spanish21


Also can you double on any number of cards? ... Can you redouble? Would you be counting or playing basic strategy?

-db

Hi db,

Regarding your questions,

- No I can only double on two cards. If I hit on the first 2 cards, then I'm not allowed to double, although I can redouble.
- I would be counting. Actually, I bought the book, Pro's Guide to Spanish 21 by Katrina Walker. If you read the book, I'd appreciate if you could provide me some insight.

San

 

[daddybo]

Hi db,

Regarding your questions,

- No I can only double on two cards. If I hit on the first 2 cards, then I'm not allowed to double, although I can redouble.
- I would be counting. Actually, I bought the book, Pro's Guide to Spanish 21 by Katrina Walker. If you read the book, I'd appreciate if you could provide me some insight.

San

San, is this the game at this link?

(Dead link: http://www.7luck.com/en/guide/game/sevenluck21.jsp)

 

[San]

San, is this the game at this link?

(Dead link: http://www.7luck.com/en/guide/game/sevenluck21.jsp)

Hi db,

Yes, that's the game I mentioned.

San

 

[daddybo]

-- okay been away playing..

See page 31 of Walker's PGSp21. IN the NHC H17 game the dealer has a 26.6% chance of busting with the 7 up. 73.4% of the time she will make a hand. The majority of that 73.4% she will have a hand greater than 18. Using your example of A2 vs 7 you would only have around a 10% advantage against the seven with BS. Not nearly enough Advantage to double your risk even if you could hit again.. because you really need to end up with a hand of 19 or bettter to have a consistently winning hand. To realize this outcome there are only 3 of 12 cards that will do it for you. Plus you will forgo your bonus payouts by doubling even if you can hit again! Also if you don't get your 3 good cards on the double, you will still end up with only 3/12 chance fof making that 19 off of another hit... plus again you lost your chance at the multicard bonus.

So... It's best to stick to Walkers' indices for doubling (or BS) and just treat the extra hit as a rule that reduces the house edge.

I looked at the site and they don't mention hitting after doubling.. but they did mention the redouble... which is a great rule. Also you need to take into consideration the rules on forfeiting .. if they allow it.

I don't get to play SP21 very often and It's possible I may have missed something... There are several guys here that play it way more than I that may be able to verify or discredit my analysis. But again, if it were me I would stick to the indices and just be happy to hit again and maybe get lucky and rescue some bad doubles. (unless someone comes up with something different) Good Luck.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Complete rule list

Does the dealer draw a hole card?
If not is it OBBO?
From the website it looks like 21 is not an automatic winner and an unsuited 678 is only a 21. It is also unclear if double down rescue is available at all or if it is available but not against an ace.
Please post your findings, this could be a very good game.
-BW

 

[moo321]

I can only speculate on the play, but I think doubling a2 vs. a 7 would be correct. You only need 18 to be a strong winner.

Nonetheless, this needs to be simmed to come up with a proper strategy for the game. This rule is probably worth a decent amount.

Does the game allow double-down surrender as well? If so, you would draw if the EV of the stiff hand is higher than .25, and surrender if less.

Also, maybe we shouldn't be talking about this in public. Although, it's Korean so they're probably not on here...

 

[daddybo]

I can only speculate on the play, but I think doubling a2 vs. a 7 would be correct. You only need 18 to be a strong winner.

Nonetheless, this needs to be simmed to come up with a proper strategy for the game. This rule is probably worth a decent amount.

Does the game allow double-down surrender as well? If so, you would draw if the EV of the stiff hand is higher than .25, and surrender if less.

Also, maybe we shouldn't be talking about this in public. Although, it's Korean so they're probably not on here...

18 is not a very strong hand in SP21 or really BJ for that matter.

 

[moo321]

18 is not a very strong hand in SP21 or really BJ for that matter.

Against a seven it is.

 

[daddybo]

Against a seven it is.

Not really, but a stronger hand in BJ than in SP21.

 

[San]

Seven Luck 21 Complete Rule List

Hi All,

Thanks for everyone sharing your thoughts, the following is the complete rule list,

1. Early surrender, even against Ace
2. No Hole Card
3. Dealer nature wins All, including double and splite.
4. Double rescue (forfiet) is available
5. Hit after doubling is allowed.
6. Re-Double is allowed
7. H17
8. Double after split
9. Ace split only draws one card

I had observed some AP plays and found something interest. They don't split Ace pairs against 2 to 6. They double instead. I think it's because of the rules of the Hit After Doubling and Redoubling. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Let me know if you need to know anything else.

San

 

[moo321]

It seems like with re-doubling and hit after doubling, you should be double all of your nines and possible eights and lower vs. 2-6. Soft doubling would be more frequent as well.