Hitting 20.

[UK-21]

Have just returned from a trip to Germany - during which I sat down to a few hands of BJ (to be sociable!) on a CSM served table. I was on box 5.

An Italian guy was at 3rd base, betting table min there but playing box 4 at EURO 50.00 or EURO 100.00, and back betting 10 EURO on boxes 3 & 2. He pulled a jack and a queen at third and asked if it was OK to split them. He was told no, they were not the same. So he tells the dealer to hit it. After several words on both sides he's dealt a card and, no surprise, busts out.

My wife asks me WTF did he do that? Obviously he was attempting to do some sort of sequencing to put a certain card on box 4. But playing against a CSM (six decks) where every hand was returned immediately at the end of the round?

Anyone have any ideas? Eventually after he had lost a few hands at EURO 50.00 he decided enough was enough and sat down at box 4 to play. By then I'd blown mine and was leaving. My wife reckons that perhaps he didn't realise the machine shuffled the cards continuously and was tracking a sequence he'd seen come out earlier (although I find that idea staggering).

Perhaps he just had more money than sense?

 

[Katweezel]

Mystery

Have just returned from a trip to Germany - during which I sat down to a few hands of BJ (to be sociable!) on a CSM served table. I was on box 5.

An Italian guy was at 3rd base, betting table min there but playing box 4 at EURO 50.00 or EURO 100.00, and back betting 10 EURO on boxes 3 & 2. He pulled a jack and a queen at third and asked if it was OK to split them. He was told no, they were not the same. So he tells the dealer to hit it. After several words on both sides he's dealt a card and, no surprise, busts out.

My wife asks me WTF did he do that? Obviously he was attempting to do some sort of sequencing to put a certain card on box 4. But playing against a CSM (six decks) where every hand was returned immediately at the end of the round?

Anyone have any ideas? Eventually after he had lost a few hands at EURO 50.00 he decided enough was enough and sat down at box 4 to play. By then I'd blown mine and was leaving. My wife reckons that perhaps he didn't realise the machine shuffled the cards continuously and was tracking a sequence he'd seen come out earlier (although I find that idea staggering).

Perhaps he just had more money than sense?

You report on a conversation you heard between an Italian and a (presumably) German dealer. Seeing as you are from UK, it seems you are multi-lingual. To get to the bottom of this, we need to know 3 things first: the word for Jack, in Italian & German, the word for Queen in Italian & German, and the word for mafia, in Italian and German. As soon as we have those, I think this can be solved. :cat:

 

[UK-21]

You report on a conversation you heard between an Italian and a (presumably) German dealer. Seeing as you are from UK, it seems you are multi-lingual. To get to the bottom of this, we need to know 3 things first: the word for Jack, in Italian & German, the word for Queen in Italian & German, and the word for mafia, in Italian and German. As soon as we have those, I think this can be solved. :cat:

You wouldn't need to be multi-lingual to have understood what was going on.
I don't think it was a mafia connection - the Italian guy was more of the mad professor type (perhaps testing his latest theory?).

 

[FLASH1296]

Curiously, at Mohegan Sun casino in Connecticut, TENS cannot be split whether or not the cards are identical

 

[EasyRhino]

I think the default explanation is that he had no idea what he was doing. And thought that some how sacrificing the small bet on box 3 would help larger box 4.

If he didn't seem well bankrolled for his bet size, that would be another unrelated hint that he hadn't thought things through very well.

 

[Martin Gayle]

Curiously, at Mohegan Sun casino in Connecticut, TENS cannot be split whether or not the cards are identical

Interesting. I wasn't playing in the 60s or 70s but I understand that splitting 10's was a much more popular ploppy play. It is all but vanished from the realm of ploppy play. However, splitting 10's can be a popular and strong move for AP's.

Some jurisictions (Reno) have such restrictive rules that it limits the impact of terrible players. Noone will ever double a 12 or a 6 when you can only double on 10,11. It will take a really adept AP to double on a 12. I would assume more ploppies would double a 12 than AP's.

So I find it wise for a casino to restrict the split of 10's whereas I find it more curious to not allow DOA.

 

[FLASH1296]

When to Double on 12

I believe that doubling on a 12 against ANY dealer up card is NEVER an indicated Basic Strategy deviation utilizing normal Card Counting Systems.

If you were side-counting the 6's 7's 8's and 9's [as a group] a la the DHM Expert Count, you could find times when the 12 facing a dealer stiff card would be an appropriate double.

Very few of us are capable of this play.

Are you listening, Tarzan ?

 

[Martin Gayle]

I believe that doubling on a 12 against ANY dealer up card is NEVER an indicated Basic Strategy deviation utilizing normal Card Counting Systems.

You're right. A card counter wouldn't make that play. I don't mention counting. My post says AP's which is a broader term and included more than counters.

 

[Kasi]

Anyone have any ideas?

Clearly a multi-lingual expert sequencer who plays all over the world and who just happened to suffer from a little bad luck, is obviously familiar with the shuffle algorithm of the CSM, and pretending he didn't know the rules as brilliant cover not costing a cent, because he can't speak the language so he could make the expert play of hitting his 20 to take the heat off.

Probably felt sorry for the couple ploppies he was playing with and who lost all their money not knowing how to take advantage of the game. :grin:

 

[Kasi]

Curiously, at Mohegan Sun casino in Connecticut, TENS cannot be split whether or not the cards are identical

What do you find curious about that?

 

[UK-21]

Clearly a multi-lingual expert sequencer who plays all over the world and who just happened to suffer from a little bad luck, is obviously familiar with the shuffle algorithm of the CSM, and pretending he didn't know the rules as brilliant cover not costing a cent, because he can't speak the language so he could make the expert play of hitting his 20 to take the heat off.

Probably felt sorry for the couple ploppies he was playing with and who lost all their money not knowing how to take advantage of the game. :grin:

In hindsight I think you're right. I had stumbled across one of those rare genius types, who are so far in front that us mere mortals couldn't possibly understand why they defy all logic in what they do. Personally I'm not sure I could afford to be one.