House Edge in WW Hot Streak Blackjack

[aka23]

Wagerworks lists the house edge of this game as 0.19%. I am estimating slightly above this at ~0.23% I am unable to resolve the difference. Could anyone confirm the house edge for this unique combination of rules?

--6 Decks
--Dealer Stands of Soft 17
--Dealer Does not Peak for BJ (full bet lost on doubles and splits)
--Double Down on Any 2 Cards
--Double Down After Split
--No Resplits
--Player Can Hit and Double on Split Aces
--6-Card Charlie

 

[Kasi]

Wagerworks lists the house edge of this game as 0.19%. I am estimating slightly above this at ~0.23% I am unable to resolve the difference. Could anyone confirm the house edge for this unique combination of rules?

--6 Decks
--Dealer Stands of Soft 17
--Dealer Does not Peak for BJ (full bet lost on doubles and splits)
--Double Down on Any 2 Cards
--Double Down After Split
--No Resplits
--Player Can Hit and Double on Split Aces
--6-Card Charlie

I certainly can't.

But my money would be on you and they are mis-representing themselves!

I suppose re-shuffling after 50 cards might effect the HA compared to every hand?

 

[Cardcounter]

About blackjack?

If you double down with an 11 against a 10 or ace. Catch a 10 end up with 21 and the dealer turns over a blackjack do you push?

 

[Geoff Hall]

Wagerworks lists the house edge of this game as 0.19%. I am estimating slightly above this at ~0.23% I am unable to resolve the difference. Could anyone confirm the house edge for this unique combination of rules?

--6 Decks
--Dealer Stands of Soft 17
--Dealer Does not Peak for BJ (full bet lost on doubles and splits)
--Double Down on Any 2 Cards
--Double Down After Split
--No Resplits
--Player Can Hit and Double on Split Aces
--6-Card Charlie

I make it 0.23% too.

Just given it some more thought and I'm wondering if the 6-card Charlie (usually worth 0.16% to the player) would have an increased value as you can draw a 6-card hand before the dealer checks for 'Blackjack'. This would mean that you could win a small % of your hands even if a dealer has a 'Blackjack'.

Just a thought.

 

[aka23]

I make it 0.23% too.

It is good to get some confirmation of the 0.23% figure.

Under WW Hot Streak rules, a player 6-card Charlie wins against all hands except for a dealer blackjack. A dealer blackjack wins against all hands except for a player blackjack.

 

[MGP]

TD EV: -0.275137633908951%
CD EV: -0.25487656106712%

With actually 2 no-brainer exceptions included in the TDEV - i.e. stand on all 6 card hands and hit all 5 card soft hands. These are exact assuming the 6-card charlie still loses to BJ. If it beats BJ then the EV's are:

TD EV: -0.248064421650548%
CD EV: -0.213961906524719%

 

[aka23]

TD EV: -0.275137633908951%
CD EV: -0.25487656106712%

With actually 2 no-brainer exceptions included in the TDEV - i.e. stand on all 6 card hands and hit all 5 card soft hands. These are exact assuming the 6-card charlie still loses to BJ. If it beats BJ then the EV's are:

TD EV: -0.248064421650548%
CD EV: -0.213961906524719%

The numbers are very helpful. While they differ my estimates, they do show that there is a 0.04% difference between the 6-card Charlie rules. This could explain the 0.04% difference between my estimate of 0.23% and the house edge Wagerworks lists of 0.19%.

However, the rules seem very clear that a dealer BJ beats a 6-card Charlie -- " A Six-Card Charlie beats all Dealer hands except for a Dealer Blackjack. Only the player can get a Six-Card Charlie. "

So my guess is that either their Wagerworks house edge calc used the wrong set of 6-card Charlie rules, or the game's rules lists the wrong information about a 6-card Charlie beating a BJ.

 

[MGP]

The numbers are very helpful. While they differ my estimates, they do show that there is a 0.04% difference between the 6-card Charlie rules. This could explain the 0.04% difference between my estimate of 0.23% and the house edge Wagerworks lists of 0.19%.

However, the rules seem very clear that a dealer BJ beats a 6-card Charlie -- " A Six-Card Charlie beats all Dealer hands except for a Dealer Blackjack. Only the player can get a Six-Card Charlie. "

So my guess is that either their Wagerworks house edge calc used the wrong set of 6-card Charlie rules, or the game's rules lists the wrong information about a 6-card Charlie beating a BJ.

It doesn't really matter which rules they used - all the estimates are wrong... My values are exact. Since BJ wins use the first set of values.

 

[aka23]

It doesn't really matter which rules they used - all the estimates are wrong... My values are exact. Since BJ wins use the first set of values.

Did you include modified strategy, depending on number of cards? For example hitting 12 vs 4 with 4+ cards, and hitting 15 vs 4 with 5 cards?

 

[MGP]

Did you include modified strategy, depending on number of cards? For example hitting 12 vs 4 with 4+ cards, and hitting 15 vs 4 with 5 cards?

For TD, or Total Dependent, play, all hands are played completely based on their total vs upcard regardless of the number of cards with the 2 exceptions I noted above that are "no-brainers". I.e. standing on all 6 card hands and hitting all 5 card soft hands. Without those obvious exceptions the EV would be around -0.31%.

The CD value is composition dependent so it uses the best available strategy for a given hand. The exception is post-split where the hand is played based on the same strategy that was used for it pre-split. While this isn't how people play since there are usually too many exceptions worth very little to make them worth memorizing, it gives an idea of the maximum EV of a game so that's why I include it. This would include exceptions such as the ones you give.

This does bring up something I didn't think about when I made my statement about being the values being exact. My CA is not applying the 6-card Charlie post split. So my apologies if your's and Geoff's estimates include a post-split bonus. My understanding when making my CA was that most bonuses like this are not applied post-split. That might be enough to account for the difference.

I'm curious if it is paid though for split hands - is it?

Thanks,
MGP

 

[aka23]

I appreciate the explanation. I'm not certain whether the 6-card Charlie is given post split or not. The rules do not exclude the situation, implying that the bonus is given post split. However, like you said, Charlie bonuses typically do not apply after the split. If you'd like to look at the game and rules in more detail, they are at (Dead link: https://casino.virgingames.com/GameDetails.do?menu=BJAC&gameid=0070-0)