How good a game do YOU need to sit down?

[ARK]

Bored at work so instead of working, thought I'd get some conversation started on game quality...

All of us would happily play a S17 DAS LS game with 90% penetration, and we would all avoid a H17 shoe game with 50% penetration. The reality is that most games fall in the middle of these games and unless you live in Vegas, you are most of the time limited by games in your area.

So what are YOUR requirements for a game? Let's hear what you need in order to sitdown. % penetration? Number of players at the table? H17/S17? Some examples to get you started, but feel free to add your own.

Would you play:
1) 6D H17 DAS - 4.5/6 penetration - 0-2 other players
2) 6D H17 DAS - 5/6 penetration - full table
3) DD S17 LS - Double 10 and 11 only, no splitting aces - 1.5/2 penetration - 0-2 other players
4) DD H17 DAS - 1/2 penetration - 0-2 other players
5) DD S17 DAS LS - 1/2 penetration - full table

Feel free to add single deck rules if you like. I don't have any single deck games available so have no experience in that realm.

Let's hear what YOU want to play!

EDIT: I'm thinking this is for a play-all or at least play-most scenario. Obviously you can play some pretty terrible games if that's all that is available in your area and you are willing to only play positive counts.

 

[jaygruden]

In my area I play 6 & 8D S17 games, DA2, DAS, SAP up to 3x, NRSA, LS, 3to2- I'm looking for 80% + pen but will play at better than 68% penetration. If it's worse than that I walk. Of course, I prefer 4 players or less at table but will play a full table with good pen at these games.

Haven't been to AC in a year since most tables went to H17 but I will go back in a few months to spread my play. Will try to find the good 6D S17 tables (if there are any left by the time I get back there), but will likely play an 8D, H17 game with 75% pen and standard AC rules (only after I have exhausted all efforts to find a better game). I think I walk if I can't find better pen than that

 

[blackriver]

If you have the appropriate bankroll, always sit. games that don't have good rules are less protected and you have less to lose. If you see a dream game you might as well sit, but know that theres a good chance its a trap. ( If your a pro and this game belongs to an empire, then I don't have to tell you not to play or be brief and gentle.) If you see a useless game, maybe play for a bit and find out if the rules became that waybecause of APs. if they just dint have any competition maybe you can spread insanely, or theres hole carding, mispaying, scavenging (anyone else playing are by default idiots right?) sequencing and tracking opportunities. remember, almost every game IS beatable. It really depends on if you can get away with it.

If you have lots of choices, then most strategies you that involve spreading the heat around and intuitively factor in intangibles (driving, ambiance, comps, tolerances, dealer errors, scavenging, crowding etc) will be pretty close to optimizing your expected utility which is the end goal if done right. Because while ev its the most important factor, you won't consider bad games options and the good games will quickly get hot and lower their value

 

[Richard Munchkin]

For me the primary factors would be the amount of heat involved & the win rate. I would rather play a game worth $100 per hour in a heat free environment, than a game worth $500 per hour in a place that is likely to bar me quickly and send fliers all over the place.

 

[gothic]

hmmm

A single deck game in my area has about 62% pen with less-than-wonderful rules (NDAS NS D10) that actually is quite playable, especially because it's in a reservation casino where camo is hardly needed so long as the person counting doesn't mumble under their breath the RC. I suppose conditions have to be better to make it worth playing under heat and tighter surveillance because of the cost of misplays and variance added when using oppositional betting on shoe games (not really effective in pitch, from what I've read in Blackbelt in Blackjack). I'm still trying to figure out what I like most, but so far I'm diggin' single deck and could see liking double deck games too. Sounds like Reno would be good for me :grin:

Gawthic

 

[blackjack avenger]

i want all

All of them, even in the same casino.

Gotta work the room.

An illustration:

6/8 h17 das
Vs
4.5/6 s17, das, ls, rsa
Which is better?

Later in the session
2nd game is -3 TC over 3/4 dealt
Now which is better?

Also, need to spread play over many casinos if one plays enough. As one plays more game quality can suffer.

 

[The Chaperone]

Would you play:
1) 6D H17 DAS - 4.5/6 penetration - 0-2 other players
2) 6D H17 DAS - 5/6 penetration - full table
3) DD S17 LS - Double 10 and 11 only, no splitting aces - 1.5/2 penetration - 0-2 other players
4) DD H17 DAS - 1/2 penetration - 0-2 other players
5) DD S17 DAS LS - 1/2 penetration - full table

Personally, I wouldn't play any of these games. The one I would be closest to considering is Game #3, but not splitting aces is kind of gross. Did you mean no *re*-splitting of aces? If so, and if the game was heads up, I would probably sit down if I didn't have anything better going on. But honestly, these days, if all I have is a game like that, I usually decide to move down the road and continue scouting.

 

[FLASH1296]

I would only select #5