How much money would a casino make...

[pit15]

If they offered a card counting class?

What if there's a casino that did this:

- Offer a card counting class. Teach basic strategy and a simple count, like hi-lo
- Offer a beatable game, but not a good game. (A game that no serious counter would ever bother playing. Like H17 8 deck shoes with table min of 10, max of 100, or min of 25, max of 250)
- Only restrict players if their hourly EV is higher then $20 (and do not 86 those players, just reduce pen to where the game's only break-even, or lower the table maximum on them)
- Leave out important parts like looking for good pen, good rules

999 out of 1000 people who take the class will lose money. The 1 out of 1000 who have a clue and may become successful counters will quickly move on once they realize they can get a much better game elsewhere

I bet they would make a killing. Other casinos that offer good games probably won't like it since the successful counters will go there, but that's an added bonus, hurt your competition as well

 

[Jack_Black]

casinos aren't run by Ivy league business grads, with the exception of the huge corporate chains(and even then, I'm still not sure). this idea is good, but it will never fly anywhere. consider the already small edge that comes from counting. consider that it doesn't take much to be a good counter. consider that even being a good counter, huge variance is part of the game. consider that every place i've been kicked out of in vegas and laughlin, was because I finally had some positive variance. Otherwise, each place I was welcomed to stay during my negative variance runs. I played vegas DD for 1.5 hours during a negative run without even glare from the pit. but on my very small +variance session, I was made out in 30 minutes. I truly believe that counters, even the vast amount that are subsisting in vegas, are of no threat. maybe a few real high stakes counters might be, but the majority are not. and yet, casinos still kick out counters like they were some sort of vermin.

 

[blackriver]

they sell some of the lesser weaker blackjack books in their gift shops. its a slightly less blatant version of what your saying. it also make it all the more hypocritical that they 86 good counters. "Your kicking me out cause i read the book you sold me? gtfo!"

 

[MAZ]

Casinos don't have waste time and money to run a class to teach bad card counting, most card counters do it themselves. First off, the average gambler is what makes the casino biz as successful as it is so why throw a dog a bone. Secondly, card counting is such a weak form of AP that even the tiniest fraction of a percent that can pull it off, do so with such infrequency that they are of no consequence. With that being said the overwhelming amount of bogus counters are still not that important to the casinos, as even though they are losing their bankrolls to variance (ha ha), there still is a very small percentage even trying to count. The casinos problem comes with the fact they don't realize all of this. I wouldn't offer CC classes, but i wouldn't care about those trying to do it. Even succesful counters lose almost as much as they win. The big bankrolls and money made by AP is not coming from the card counters, at least not in this day and age.

 

[creeping panther]

Maz

Casinos don't have waste time and money to run a class to teach bad card counting, most card counters do it themselves. First off, the average gambler is what makes the casino biz as successful as it is so why throw a dog a bone. Secondly, card counting is such a weak form of AP that even the tiniest fraction of a percent that can pull it off, do so with such infrequency that they are of no consequence. With that being said the overwhelming amount of bogus counters are still not that important to the casinos, as even though they are losing their bankrolls to variance (ha ha), there still is a very small percentage even trying to count. The casinos problem comes with the fact they don't realize all of this. I wouldn't offer CC classes, but i wouldn't care about those trying to do it. Even succesful counters lose almost as much as they win. The big bankrolls and money made by AP is not coming from the card counters, at least not in this day and age.

Maz, be careful, you may be banned for Heresy!

CP

 

[Machinist]

Maz, be careful, you may be banned for Heresy!

CP

Well crap CP.......we be doing it all wrong????? Dammit we're gonna have to get our act strait at the Bash. !!!!!

Machinist

 

[creeping panther]

Macho

Well crap CP.......we be doing it all wrong????? Dammit we're gonna have to get our act strait at the Bash. !!!!!

Machinist

Hell, it would be a great topic for a Round Table Discussion at the BASH

CP

 

[Thunder]

while straight counting is probably one of the least profitable forms of AP, it is however the easiest to do. The number of opportunities though are declining as casinos get more and more paranoid. Honestly though, you have to almost be a masochist to straight count for a living. Personally I rather take that bankroll and do something that's going to make me a lot more.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Casinos don't have waste time and money to run a class to teach bad card counting, most card counters do it themselves. First off, the average gambler is what makes the casino biz as successful as it is so why throw a dog a bone. Secondly, card counting is such a weak form of AP that even the tiniest fraction of a percent that can pull it off, do so with such infrequency that they are of no consequence. With that being said the overwhelming amount of bogus counters are still not that important to the casinos, as even though they are losing their bankrolls to variance (ha ha), there still is a very small percentage even trying to count. The casinos problem comes with the fact they don't realize all of this. I wouldn't offer CC classes, but i wouldn't care about those trying to do it. Even succesful counters lose almost as much as they win. The big bankrolls and money made by AP is not coming from the card counters, at least not in this day and age.

x2

 

[Coach R]

If they offered a card counting class?

What if there's a casino that did this:

- Offer a card counting class. Teach basic strategy and a simple count, like hi-lo
- Offer a beatable game, but not a good game. (A game that no serious counter would ever bother playing. Like H17 8 deck shoes with table min of 10, max of 100, or min of 25, max of 250)
- Only restrict players if their hourly EV is higher then $20 (and do not 86 those players, just reduce pen to where the game's only break-even, or lower the table maximum on them)
- Leave out important parts like looking for good pen, good rules

999 out of 1000 people who take the class will lose money. The 1 out of 1000 who have a clue and may become successful counters will quickly move on once they realize they can get a much better game elsewhere

I bet they would make a killing. Other casinos that offer good games probably won't like it since the successful counters will go there, but that's an added bonus, hurt your competition as well

Would this be a free class? I don't think many people would pay a casino to instruct them on how to use a system that they would inturn ask them to stop playing if they used it. Or would many people think that a casino would really show a player how to get an edge. I wouldn't trust anyone who said they would show me how to take money away from them. Beside, casino's already make a killing.

 

[MangoJ]

With that being said the overwhelming amount of bogus counters are still not that important to the casinos, as even though they are losing their bankrolls to variance (ha ha)

The overbetting counter will bust his bankroll in the long run, but that doesn't mean the casino will make that money in the long run.
Taking a counters bet is still -EV for the casino, overbetting or not.

 

[creeping panther]

Sonny-Insult

Hell, it would be a great topic for a Round Table Discussion at the BASH

CP

Sonny saw fit to edit this post because he said I had insulted KJ,,, for the record no insult was intended at all

If I see fit to insult someone it will be very clear and obvious and I will always take responsibility for it, that surely was not the case with the post associated with Sonnys edit.

CP

 

[Sonny]

Perhaps the past issues between CP and KJ caused me to jump on this one a little too quickly. I will re-post CP's comments below with his assurance that they were made in friendly spirit.

-Sonny-

"We keep hearing this from all the greats like Maz, Bojack, CAA, etc, but KJ is out there living Lavida La Locha straight counting,,,err wait,,,he recently started to track, or is that card steering,,,or maybe Ace Sequencing,,,or maybe esp???????:laugh::laugh:

Discuss we will, sure about that."

 

[pit15]

Would this be a free class? I don't think many people would pay a casino to instruct them on how to use a system that they would inturn ask them to stop playing if they used it. Or would many people think that a casino would really show a player how to get an edge. I wouldn't trust anyone who said they would show me how to take money away from them. Beside, casino's already make a killing.

Of course it's free, just like craps lessons

 

[alwayssplitaces]

When "Beat The Dealer" came out, casinos were fearing a major loss of revenue when so many people tried to count. But instead they had a big revenue boost because people weren't doing it right.

I have a lot of people asking me to teach them how to count cards, and they sometimes ask me to turn $100 into $1000. I tell them that of course I can't do that, since $100 isn't even enough for one max bet. But I tell them that I can turn $5000 into $6000 given enough time. Card counting isn't a "get rich quick" thing, it's more of a long term investment like the stock market (except it always will go up in the long term and is immune to recessions).

 

[BrianCP]

My friend and I were discussing a rather hilarious business plan a Casino might use to deter counting. If they notice someone counting, rather than asking them just to leave, they give them all sorts of coupons and discounts at a rival casino and tell them what the best games there are.

Man business is cutthroat.

 

[MangoJ]

My friend and I were discussing a rather hilarious business plan a Casino might use to deter counting. If they notice someone counting, rather than asking them just to leave, they give them all sorts of coupons and discounts at a rival casino and tell them what the best games there are.

Please call me when you open business.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

The casino would reach the "long run" against counting players more quickly if they trained a significant amount of players. Even if they did it somewhat poorly, this would still negatively impact their bottom line.