How much of an edge?

[Reachy]

Hi

I usually post on the blackjacktournaments.com forum and a recent post on there has got me thinking. There were some concerns about card counting software used in conjunction with online BJ tourneys and the potential edge such software might give. If you were able to track the exact composition of the dealt cards how much of an edge would this give you over a non-counter, a level 1 count and so on? Assume a 6 deck shoe 75-85% penetration. The site concerned is Global-Player.com and card counting is feasible in the tournaments they run. FYI I am not personally a card counter as I play only tournaments (online only - I'm UK based) and have no desire to develop such software

Cheers in advance

Reachy

 

[ScottH]

Hi

I usually post on the blackjacktournaments.com forum and a recent post on there has got me thinking. There were some concerns about card counting software used in conjunction with online BJ tourneys and the potential edge such software might give. If you were able to track the exact composition of the dealt cards how much of an edge would this give you over a non-counter, a level 1 count and so on? Assume a 6 deck shoe 75-85% penetration. The site concerned is Global-Player.com and card counting is feasible in the tournaments they run. FYI I am not personally a card counter as I play only tournaments (online only - I'm UK based) and have no desire to develop such software

Cheers in advance

Reachy

I don't know the exact gain in advantage, but I have heard that there isn't a signifcant gain if you use a counting progam that tracks all cards over a normal counting system. I think the reason for that is, normal card counting systems already have high BC (Betting Correlation), which is most important for winning money. A counting system that tracked every card would have a much higher playing efficiency, but it's not as important as betting efficiency.

So with that said, it sounds like it's easier to just to learn how to count then to develop a program that does it for you. Since you cant use computers to aid your play in land-based casinos, you will also be able to count cards in a casino if you learn a traditional system.

 

[zengrifter]

Hi

I usually post on the blackjacktournaments.com forum and a recent post on there has got me thinking. There were some concerns about card counting software used in conjunction with online BJ tourneys and the potential edge such software might give. If you were able to track the exact composition of the dealt cards how much of an edge would this give you over a non-counter, a level 1 count and so on? Assume a 6 deck shoe 75-85% penetration. The site concerned is Global-Player.com and card counting is feasible in the tournaments they run. FYI I am not personally a card counter as I play only tournaments (online only - I'm UK based) and have no desire to develop such software

Cheers in advance

Reachy

Card-counting adds NOTHING to tournament play, and neither will the scheme you present. Don't bother giving it any more thought. zg

 

[Reachy]

I hoped as much...

Thank you for your quick replies and I'm pleased by what I have heard. I was aware that counting was not considered beneficial to tourney play and I'm glad that the use of computers doesn't add anything of value. My concern was that with online tourney play likely to take off soon people may be able to exploit potential "loopholes" with software like this.

Kind regards

Reachy

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Card-counting adds NOTHING to tournament play, and neither will the scheme you present. Don't bother giving it any more thought. zg

I wouldn't say 'nothing', just not very much. The information for playing decisions would have to be used in a very different way than we use it in a normal game.

You have 16. Opponent has 17. Dealer shows 10. Bets and stacks are approximately equal. What the heck do you do? A computer might be helpful.

 

[Mikeaber]

I know it's been emphasised on the Tourney side and here as well that counting doesn't play a huge role in tournament play. Oh, you will see some plays in tournaments that are based on count but mostly, they are plays made in desparation. I recall Stanns making a play last year that was pretty wild. I think he had a pair of faces, split them, split them again and drew an ace on one (doubled it) and hit to twenty on the other hands. He won on all three if I remember correctly. But, he was in a position in which he had to do that to win. Either his commentary or that of the "hosts" indicated that the count was really high at the time and that the move what that of someone who was a card counter. I doubt it. While it probably had some influence on Dave's decision, I would think that he'd have done it anyway because of his BR position.

Both Tournaments and Cash Play have their place. I do not necessairly think that there is a natural progression from Cash to Tournament. Different beasts entirely.

Thank you for your quick replies and I'm pleased by what I have heard. I was aware that counting was not considered beneficial to tourney play and I'm glad that the use of computers doesn't add anything of value. My concern was that with online tourney play likely to take off soon people may be able to exploit potential "loopholes" with software like this.

Kind regards

Reachy

 

[zengrifter]

I know it's been emphasised on the Tourney side and here as well that counting doesn't play a huge role in tournament play. Oh, you will see some plays in tournaments that are based on count but mostly, they are plays made in desparation. I recall Stanns making a play last year that was pretty wild. I think he had a pair of faces, split them, split them again and drew an ace on one (doubled it) and hit to twenty on the other hands. He won on all three if I remember correctly. But, he was in a position in which he had to do that to win. Either his commentary or that of the "hosts" indicated that the count was really high at the time and that the move what that of someone who was a card counter. I doubt it. While it probably had some influence on Dave's decision, I would think that he'd have done it anyway because of his BR position.

Both Tournaments and Cash Play have their place. I do not necessairly think that there is a natural progression from Cash to Tournament. Different beasts entirely.

Its my understanding that virtually NONE of the top tourney pros use counting, and for good reason. zg