How to adapt BS?

[NoNeedForLuck]

Hello, Im new here. I need some help. I have very good memory but my math isnt the best possible.

I can remember all the cards but I dont know how to adjust best possible BS for given situation. Can you give me some directions and is it even possible to calculate so quick? Anyway I assume this will become my second nature in near future. One more thing, what is my actual edge over the house in this game (with knowing all cards)?

 

[callipygian]

I can remember all the cards but I dont know how to adjust best possible BS for given situation. Can you give me some directions and is it even possible to calculate so quick?

It's impossible to answer these questions without knowing which counting system you're using and your bet spreads.

In general, what you want is the "Illustrious 18" - a collection of the top 18 rules which account for about 90% of the advantage you gain from rule changes. You can Google it or you can use the onsite search engine, either one will return more results than you can read.

One more thing, what is my actual edge over the house in this game (with knowing all cards)?

You'll need to describe your counting system, your bet spread and Wonging if any.

 

[NoNeedForLuck]

Thank you thats what I was looking for, BS variations.

I use no system however, I can remember any card with pegging memory technique or whatever is called in english. For example I asociate ace with red (I dont know exact word) can of cocacola, 2 aces small plastic cocacola, 3 with big plastic cocacola, 4 with a cocacola barrel, 5 with grean can of cocacola and so on.. I have asociation for every card except 10,J,Q,K. I find it easier to simply count them.
Should I use some of already checked systems or should I stick with my memory?

 

[callipygian]

Thank you thats what I was looking for, BS variations.

The variations in the Illustrious 18 are given for a specific system - the indices for Hi-Lo are different than for KO, for instance.

I asociate ace with red (I dont know exact word) can of cocacola, 2 aces small plastic cocacola, 3 with big plastic cocacola, 4 with a cocacola barrel, 5 with grean can of cocacola and so on..

I don't understand. What do you do once you've counted the cards? How many of each card are required for you to put out a larger bet?

Should I use some of already checked systems or should I stick with my memory?

If it is true that you can remember every single card played, that is more powerful than any of the other systems. However, it's extremely rare that someone can actually do that. Most counting systems rely on grouping similar cards - 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (low) all have the same effect when they're taken out of the deck; aces and tens (high) have the same effect when they're taken out of the deck. The Hi-Lo system counts lows as +1 and highs as -1. This is about as complex as most people can handle.

 

[InPlay]

Hello, Im new here. I need some help. I have very good memory but my math isnt the best possible.

I can remember all the cards but I dont know how to adjust best possible BS for given situation. Can you give me some directions and is it even possible to calculate so quick? Anyway I assume this will become my second nature in near future. One more thing, what is my actual edge over the house in this game (with knowing all cards)?

This site is what you are looking for.

http://www.mysticalball.com/

 

[moo321]

Thank you thats what I was looking for, BS variations.

I use no system however, I can remember any card with pegging memory technique or whatever is called in english. For example I asociate ace with red (I dont know exact word) can of cocacola, 2 aces small plastic cocacola, 3 with big plastic cocacola, 4 with a cocacola barrel, 5 with grean can of cocacola and so on.. I have asociation for every card except 10,J,Q,K. I find it easier to simply count them.
Should I use some of already checked systems or should I stick with my memory?

If you can actually do this, I'm sure it's valuable. But I have no idea how to use it.

 

[MrMaster]

i just wrote a longer explanation but my computer crashed...
You can search wizard of odds for the value cards removed have to you. Add and subtract these values based on what cards come out...

 

[BJinNJ]

There is No Need to Remember...

every card that is played.
Card counting is much easier and has well developed systems
which reduce your effort.

You should read some books, available from BJ websites like this,
or from Amazon.com, Half.com or eBay.

Some of my favorite books are:

"Professional Blackjack" by Wong
"Blackbelt in Blackjack" by Snyder
"Blackjack Bluebook II" by Renzey
"Blackjack for Blood" by Carlson
"Blackjack Blueprint" by Blaine
"Million Dollar Blackjack" by Uston.

These authors are considered reputable. Others may not be as good.

BJinNJ

 

[rukus]

this poster is basically saying he can keep a side count of every card that comes out of a shoe. IF he can in fact do this (hey, maybe we do have a rain man here, you never know, so don't discourage off the bat) and recall it quick enough to make decisions, he will basically be using his brain to do the same thing Uston and other's computers did back in the 70's/80's - ie play perfect strategy since he knows all remaining cards. his advantage would be pretty big (i forget what uston quotes in MDBJ) and could expect to win something like 85% of his sessions.

 

[Sonny]

IF he can in fact do this...he will basically be using his brain to do the same thing Uston and other's computers did back in the 70's/80's - ie play perfect strategy since he knows all remaining cards.

Not exactly. Those computers were doing more than counting the individual cards. They were also doing some lightning-fast calculations that would take a human hours to do and would require a few sheets of paper. A human might be capable of using an approximation of those methods, but I don't think the results would be much better than using a standard point count system. The slow play, the frequent exhaustion and the high likelihood of mistakes would cancel most of the benefits from using a memory system. The best use of this type of memory would be to use a few multi-parameter side counts, but even that wouldn’t help much. To quote from Arnold Snyder:

“Probably the most ambitious multi-parameter counting system readily available is the complete Hi-Opt I system with multi-parameter charts developed by Peter Griffin. To use this system you would keep Hi-Opt I as a primary count with 5 separate side-counts of the aces, deuces, 7s, 8s and 9s.

At the 1981 Conference on Gambling and Risk-Taking, Dr. John Gwynn, Jr. and Jeffrey Tsai presented computer simulation results which showed that, considering the difficulty of using this approach in the 4-deck game the gains from employing this count system are not significantly greater than those of the Hi-Opt I with no side-counts.”

And let’s not forget the story of Snyder’s Folly:

Some time back, I developed a counting system, which I humbly dubbed "Snyder's Folly," based on a combination of numbers, subtle body postures, and code words, which allowed me to keep perfect track of the exact number of every denomination of card remaining in a single-deck. I practiced with it for awhile, got pretty quick at counting down a deck, then gave a demonstration to Sam Case. He dealt about half a dozen hands to me, which I played out, then he asked me what my count was.

"It's 5 duckboy 3," I answered.

"What does that mean to you?" he asked.

"It means there are seven l0s remaining, one ace, no twos, one 3, two 4s, no 5s, three 6s, no 7s, no 8s and one 9."

Sam spread out the cards, put them in order, and, as I expected, my count was 100% accurate. "That's incredible," he said. "Do it again." We ran through a few more decks with him dealing, and at various points he would ask me for my deck analysis, which always proved accurate. Then the inevitable happened. He dealt himself an ace up and asked me if I wanted to take insurance. Five seconds later, with no response from me, he said, "What's wrong? You can't take this long to decide on the insurance bet."

"Well," I explained, "I know you've got eleven tens, three aces, four deuces, one 3, four 4s, two 5s, two 6s, two 7s, one 8, and three 9s remaining. I know this because my count is 9 Farley 3 and I'm sitting with my weight on my right cheek. But I can't make my insurance decision till I tally up all these damn numbers and figure out the ten ratio."

Sam laughed. "Your incredible new counting system sucks, Snyder. If you can't even make an insurance decision, how do you make your other strategy decisions?"

Any system based on memorizing every card is going to be very difficult to use and not much more valuable than a simple counting system. Systems like HiLo and KO have already been developed (which saves a lot of time), they will be much faster to learn, much faster to use and you can play for long periods of time before requiring a break.

-Sonny-

 

[moo321]

I'm wondering if this couldn't be used for baccarat...

 

[rukus]

Not exactly. Those computers were doing more than counting the individual cards. They were also doing some lightning-fast calculations that would take a human hours to do and would require a few sheets of paper. A human might be capable of using an approximation of those methods, but I don't think the results would be much better than using a standard point count system. The slow play, the frequent exhaustion and the high likelihood of mistakes would cancel most of the benefits from using a memory system.

I completely agree. my "If" also included if he can in fact do those calculations (at least in my head it did :grin: ). pretty much should just be some combinatorial calculations. im not suggesting someone apply this method, BUT if there was someone with sumerhuman brainpower, he could theoretically gain the same advantage as a computer (im not saying this is possible, just playing devil's advocate).

if someone indeed wanted to try this but couldnt do the lightning fast calculations, maybe he could devise some sort of table with the most common actions to take given the most common combinations of used-up cards at varying penetration levels. obviously this is still a lot to memorize and still a huge estimation and would likely get you less than what a traditional count system would get you (if not put you back negative). i wouldnt recommend it at all.

Any system based on memorizing every card is going to be very difficult to use and not much more valuable than a simple counting system. Systems like HiLo and KO have already been developed (which saves a lot of time), they will be much faster to learn, much faster to use and you can play for long periods of time before requiring a break.

again, agree wholeheartedly. was just playing devil's advocate in case this original poster was indeed the dustin hoffman character from rain man :joker:

 

[blackchipjim]

Rainman lives!

I applaud you on your natural ability to memorize past events. You'll have to excuse me but did you mention how many cards can be loaded inot your memory bank. If you could recall the cards the played with great acccuracy your advantage unimaginable. To play with the accuracy of a computer you could adjust your play index accordingly. There was a thread awhile back on computer play in casinos and it did mention the advantage if you had one to make decisions on previous cards dealt. You could ask Qfit for insight in to your gifted ability. blackchipjim

 

[Sonny]

If I could memorize and manipulate that many cards in my head I would use it for sequencing. With a simple enough shuffle it might indicate the exact order of certain cards in some cases.

-Sonny-

 

[NoNeedForLuck]

I can remember 3 decks so far but my recalling speed is a little slow so I will work on that. I assume I will able to recall much faster after a week or three, gotta work on that. Then I will try to learn calculations and implement them in game. I know it will take me at least a month to get this calculations down and I will still be slow but then again, with more pratctice I will know estimated values pretty fast. I have a lot of time so Im practising around 5 hours a day for last week and I have another 2 months to do that. (Im so bored here in London. All I do is cooking, studying blackjack, hitting a gym, doing my hobby and sleep a lot).

Yes, I have a good memory but every memory can be greatly improved if you put it into practice, like anything else.

Thank you for all replays, they were really helpfull. Good luck guys.

PS: Taking a break after one hour of learning greatly improves your learning curve

 

[MrMaster]

This experiment will surely be interesting to follow!
Can you tell us what kind of system you use to remember the cards?

 

[Allecc]

This experiment will surely be interesting to follow!
Can you tell us what kind of system you use to remember the cards?

He told you Dont remember the name for itm but he associate every "combination" with a picture. Probably not just a picture but a thing perhaps inside a room.

For example I asociate ace with red can of cocacola, 2 aces small plastic cocacola, 3 with big plastic cocacola, 4 with a cocacola barrel, 5 with grean can of cocacola and so on..

Similar to what Derren Brown says he's using in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1mweFSqACU

Remember he is a magician, you can never trust us. However this memory-technique do work for some people. There is memory world championship and one of the parts is to (dont know exact but you get the idea) memorize 5 decks in 5 min. Thats every card in the correct order.

 

[Sonny]

Using a "peg" system for memorizing cards can be helpful:

http://www.thememorypage.net/how-to-count-cards/

-Sonny-

 

[Guynoire]

Similar to what Derren Brown says he's using in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1mweFSqACU

Remember he is a magician, you can never trust us. However this memory-technique do work for some people. There is memory world championship and one of the parts is to (dont know exact but you get the idea) memorize 5 decks in 5 min. Thats every card in the correct order.

The clip is fake. He hits a hard 16 vs a 6. Obviously he knows nothing about blackjack and it's just for show.

 

[Allecc]

The clip is fake. He hits a hard 16 vs a 6. Obviously he knows nothing about blackjack and it's just for show.

I dont say it isnt fake, i have no doubt it could be. But dont you think there is any situation where hitting hard 16 vs. 6 would be justified? What if he memorized the shoe did a decent shuffletracking and know there will be streak of lowcards... its possible.

Dont say he knows nothing about bj, even thou i think its fake, i think he did his homework.