How to keep the count in your head

[sagefr0g]

It works for those who can do it. But no amount of practice is going to make it work for those of us whose brains aren't wired up that way. We have to find other techniques.

x2 here at least for my case, like for me i mainly remember stuff auditory but strangely enough i don't have to hear it, just 'say' it in my mind. been that way for me for over sixty years, lol, not likely to change that, easily.
not to say i can't remember stuff visually, but i gotta see it to remember it, rather than conjure up some visual scenario in my mind and then recall it.
not to say i can't conjure up some visual scenario in my mind and then recall it, just that it doesn't come naturally to me, as the auditory route does.
that was an interesting take that Richard Feynman had on this sorta thing.

in my case, just as aslan stated, it's the slow dealers that mess me up. and unfortunately the vast majority of the tables are slow as molasses.:flame:
whatever, just me maybe but i found the process of holding that count in my mind under the normally slow circumstances something akin to chinese water torture, lol. so pretty much unless it's a really fast game of short duration counting cards is a practice i've pretty much abandoned.
so i don't play much blackjack anymore, but if i do, i just mainly approach trying to find the advantage qualitatively rather than quantitatively, drawing upon what knowledge i have with respect to card counting, just sort of 'judging' the situation qualitatively, sorta thing. that's a whole other sort of skill, if you will, that needs to be developed through loads of practice, and unfortunately, not being an exact science it doesn't seem to work very reliably, lol.

 

[revrac]

It works for those who can do it. But no amount of practice is going to make it work for those of us whose brains aren't wired up that way. We have to find other techniques.

I was not trying to imply it is the magic bullet that is going to work for everyone, just something else to try. I personally in school was never one to "visualize". Teachers would always say to try it because you never know what type of learner you are. I'd just read something and say it in my head. But I thought i'd give it a try when i saw it mentioned in counting and after a little practice it actually worked remarkably well for me. I think most people would do better than they think with it but not saying it is for everyone.

I generally use it when i know something is going to take a while like changing the chip tray, long conversation with someone, someone spills their drink or when i have to do something like calculate BJ payoff on a weird bet amount and the dealer starts giving me larger chips and taking some of my chips to balance it out. I'll keep the count just saying it in my head and when it gets to a situation i'll then visualize it and have said it (two ways to remember). It may not work for everyone but couldn't hurt to practice a little and test it out.

 

[London Colin]

It may not work for everyone but couldn't hurt to practice a little and test it out.

The trouble is I can't do it at all. There is no 12 floating in front of me, no matter how hard I try to conjure it up. So I can't practise and get steadily better. If it is an ability I possess, I would have to stumble upon it in a sudden 'eureka' moment.

It's human nature to assume that the same processes go on in other people's heads as do in our own, but it seems this need not always be the case.

If you haven't watched it, I really do recommend that Feynman video; it's surprisingly relevant. And he was such a great communicator that it's a joy to hear him talking on almost any subject.

 

[revrac]

The trouble is I can't do it at all. There is no 12 floating in front of me, no matter how hard I try to conjure it up. So I can't practise and get steadily better. If it is an ability I possess, I would have to stumble upon it in a sudden 'eureka' moment.

It's human nature to assume that the same processes go on in other people's heads as do in our own, but it seems this need not always be the case.

If you haven't watched it, I really do recommend that Feynman video; it's surprisingly relevant. And he was such a great communicator that it's a joy to hear him talking on almost any subject.

I just watched the video and it was definitely neat. You could see he really enjoyed what he was talking about.

I understand people think different and people learn differently. I just would of thought that is what is easier for them. I really wouldn't of thought someone couldn't do one or the other if they tried. I believe you when you say the number doesn't appear as there is no reason to make that up but still a little surprising.

I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind and i'm only asking because this just seems interesting and hope you don't take anything i've said negatively. What happens when you try to picture the face of a relative or someone you care about or an animal you liked whatever it may be? Can you recall what they look like? What about if you close your eyes? Anything? If so, can you picture them with like a sports jersey on and a number on that jersey? What if you imagine, with your eyes closed, that you have a pencil in your hand and write a number on a tablet or chalk board or something?

 

[tthree]

I just watched the video and it was definitely neat. You could see he really enjoyed what he was talking about.

I understand people think different and people learn differently. I just would of thought that is what is easier for them. I really wouldn't of thought someone couldn't do one or the other if they tried. I believe you when you say the number doesn't appear as there is no reason to make that up but still a little surprising.

I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind and i'm only asking because this just seems interesting and hope you don't take anything i've said negatively. What happens when you try to picture the face of a relative or someone you care about or an animal you liked whatever it may be? Can you recall what they look like? What about if you close your eyes? Anything? If so, can you picture them with like a sports jersey on and a number on that jersey? What if you imagine, with your eyes closed, that you have a pencil in your hand and write a number on a tablet or chalk board or something?

This is not what I use but reading everything I got an idea. Everyone has probably heard the song "the 12 days of christmas". This is a list of 12 images to correlate to count 1 to 12. Add some to the song and you could have the 25 days... Just sing the song for a while in your leisure time and you have images quickly identified with numbers.

 

[aslan]

I actually tried Russian for negative counts. For some reason, many languages have horrifying multisyllabic names for numbers above 10.

I'm definitely not a visual person, but seeing the number, in big chunky 3-d, sitting there in front of me, helps.

Agree that slow times are the hardest times to keep the count. I have flat-out forgotten the count 4 times: slow dealers were the cause in two cases, but the other two were during fills. I hate fills.

I don't have trouble with fills, but if I did, I would use a chip on the betting circle to mark a clock position indicating a number between 1 and 12. If your number is out of range that range (more than 12), you can use either two chips or two betting circles (easy for me because I play two hands).

I said I didn't have a problem with tray fills, so it got me to wondering, what do I do? I think what I must be doing is repeating the number over and over in my head, and if if becomes faint, I give it that intense look until I can see it clearly again. It is so automatic, I have to say, that is what I think I do. I will try to remember next time it happens to write it down. Even in conversations, I think that is what I am doing. Between words and sentences and thoughts, I am repeating the number over and over again so I don't lose it. But like I say, it is automatic and I don't really think about it-- I just do it. More later after I catch myself doing it. :laugh:

 

[aslan]

This is not what I use but reading everything I got an idea. Everyone has probably heard the song "the 12 days of christmas". This is a list of 12 images to correlate to count 1 to 12. Add some to the song and you could have the 25 days... Just sing the song for a while in your leisure time and you have images quickly identified with numbers.

Or sing oldies but goodies to yourself:

One in the loneliest number...
Tea for two and two for tea, ...
Three coins in the fountain, which one will ...
Four your love, I would do anything...
Staying alive, staying alive...
Get your kicks, on route sixty-six...
Heven, I'm in heven, ...
Freight train, freight train, moving so fast, freight ...
You're mine, and we belong together...
Oh yes, I'm the great pretender, pretending that ...

You will want to update these songs with selections of your own. Really!??

So I can't spell!

 

[tthree]

Or sing oldies but goodies to yourself:View attachment 7910

One in the loneliest number...
Tea for two and two for tea, ...
Three coins in the fountain, which one will ...
Four your love, I would do anything...
Staying alive, staying alive...
Get your kicks, on route sixty-six...
Heven, I'm in heven, ...
Freight train, freight train, moving so fast, freight ...
You're mine, and we belong together...
Oh yes, I'm the great pretender, pretending that ...

You will want to update these songs with selections of your own. Really!??

So I can't spell! View attachment 7909

wow, Now that you say it that is how I do it without even thinking about it.

 

[London Colin]

I just watched the video and it was definitely neat. You could see he really enjoyed what he was talking about.

Absolutely. The same is true in all the other clips in that series (and I suspect in any clip you might find of him). Of course, the other clips have slightly less relevance to card counting.

I understand people think different and people learn differently. I just would of thought that is what is easier for them. I really wouldn't of thought someone couldn't do one or the other if they tried.

The things that struck me most about the Feynman counting anecdote were -

1. He and his colleague each started out with the implicit assumption that the other must be counting the same way as he was.
2. The colleague evidently must have used his ticker-tape-visualizing method whenever he counted anything; it seemingly was his default way of thinking. To me that's astounding, but he may have been equally astounded that some people count by talking to themselves.

In truth, though, there was no assertion that they couldn't have each learned to use the other's method, but I wonder if they could.

The main point seemed to be that the different parts of the brain that deal with particular functions, like vision and speech, can happily work in parallel. But ask one of them to do two things at once and we get in a tangle.

So if you can offload the counting task to some non-verbal part of the brain, that frees you up to hold conversations (both with others and with yourself).

I believe you when you say the number doesn't appear as there is no reason to make that up but still a little surprising.

I have a couple questions if you wouldn't mind and i'm only asking because this just seems interesting and hope you don't take anything i've said negatively. What happens when you try to picture the face of a relative or someone you care about or an animal you liked whatever it may be? Can you recall what they look like? What about if you close your eyes? Anything? If so, can you picture them with like a sports jersey on and a number on that jersey? What if you imagine, with your eyes closed, that you have a pencil in your hand and write a number on a tablet or chalk board or something?

It's hard to answer some of these questions in a meaningful way. I've never thought I have a particular deficiency in this area, but of course it's hard to know for sure. Were it not for the fact that I too read about and attempted the visualization technique for card counting, it's not a subject I would even have paid any attention to.

Roughly speaking, I think it may be fair to backtrack slightly and say that I can to some degree visualize things, be they familiar things like faces or abstract things like numbers (and closing my eyes does help a little with the task), but anything I 'see' is very fleeting and insubstantial.

There's just no way I can stick a virtual image in front of me and effortlessly keep it there.

 

[revrac]

The things that struck me most about the Feynman counting anecdote were -

1. He and his colleague each started out with the implicit assumption that the other must be counting the same way as he was.
2. The colleague evidently must have used his ticker-tape-visualizing method whenever he counted anything; it seemingly was his default way of thinking. To me that's astounding, but he may have been equally astounded that some people count by talking to themselves.

In truth, though, there was no assertion that they couldn't have each learned to use the other's method, but I wonder if they could.

The main point seemed to be that the different parts of the brain that deal with particular functions, like vision and speech, can happily work in parallel. But ask one of them to do two things at once and we get in a tangle.

So if you can offload the counting task to some non-verbal part of the brain, that frees you up to hold conversations (both with others and with yourself).

Yeah, was definitely neat to see their different initial approaches. I would be the count by saying it first type which my guess would be is the more natural tendency especially reading a lot of the posts on here (small sample size though). I think if your natural inclination is to count by just seeing it you would have an advantage when you first started counting as you could carry on a conversation easier without even having to practice.

I tried counting both ways they did in the video, noted if just trying to see the numbers and hold on a conversation was much easier to make the numbers tick by using my foot tapping to keep the rythm of when the clock should change otherwise timing got off track easier.

Definitely interesting though, makes you wonder about a lot of stuff like that.

Roughly speaking, I think it may be fair to backtrack slightly and say that I can to some degree visualize things, be they familiar things like faces or abstract things like numbers (and closing my eyes does help a little with the task), but anything I 'see' is very fleeting and insubstantial.

There's just no way I can stick a virtual image in front of me and effortlessly keep it there.

Ok, that definitely makes more sense. I get that it can float away if your not concentrating on it directly.

 

[aslan]

Absolutely. The same is true in all the other clips in that series (and I suspect in any clip you might find of him). Of course, the other clips have slightly less relevance to card counting.



The things that struck me most about the Feynman counting anecdote were -

1. He and his colleague each started out with the implicit assumption that the other must be counting the same way as he was.
2. The colleague evidently must have used his ticker-tape-visualizing method whenever he counted anything; it seemingly was his default way of thinking. To me that's astounding, but he may have been equally astounded that some people count by talking to themselves.

In truth, though, there was no assertion that they couldn't have each learned to use the other's method, but I wonder if they could.

The main point seemed to be that the different parts of the brain that deal with particular functions, like vision and speech, can happily work in parallel. But ask one of them to do two things at once and we get in a tangle.

So if you can offload the counting task to some non-verbal part of the brain, that frees you up to hold conversations (both with others and with yourself).


It's hard to answer some of these questions in a meaningful way. I've never thought I have a particular deficiency in this area, but of course it's hard to know for sure. Were it not for the fact that I too read about and attempted the visualization technique for card counting, it's not a subject I would even have paid any attention to.

Roughly speaking, I think it may be fair to backtrack slightly and say that I can to some degree visualize things, be they familiar things like faces or abstract things like numbers (and closing my eyes does help a little with the task), but anything I 'see' is very fleeting and insubstantial.

There's just no way I can stick a virtual image in front of me and effortlessly keep it there.

I think anyone can visualize, but not everyone is a visual learner. The other two styles I know of are auditory and tactile, hearing and hands on. Everyone uses all three but I think people tend to favor one over the other two. What is your preference? I'm not even sure that visual in mine, but somewhere along the line I learned it was a good method to learn things so I consciously put it to work.

 

[junior_counter]

Visualize an image

Usual I’ll repeat the count in my head for slight pauses, but as others have mentioned, is rough with a slow dealer. When there is a distraction, or extended break in dealer action mid-shoe, such as ordering a drink, several people cashing in, chip fill, etc… I’ll use visualization techniques.

Not visualize the number, but visualize an image that represents that number. It’s easier to visualize an object instead of an abstract number. It takes a little bit of effort to correlate an image with a given number and recall it instantly. But if you were able to train yourself to count cards, then you can train for visualization. Make the number correspond to an object that looks like the number, or has a distinct meaning for you.

Example. If the count is + 11, I’ll envision a big yellow football field goal post jutting up from the table. 11 looks like two uprights of a field goal post.

Here are examples of numbers 0-10 and their relating images:

0 = Big egg. Zero has nickname of goose egg.
1 = pen. The number 1 is shaped like a pen.
2 = big white swan. 2 is shaped like a swan gliding through a lake.
3 = small bird. Rotate a 3 and it looks like the stick figure birds in the sky you doodled as a kid. Visualize a small brown robin.
4 = chair. Chair has 4 legs.
5 = star. 5 points to a star.
6 = gun. 6 shooter.
7 = dice. Lucky seven.
8 = hour glass. Shape.
9 = smoking pipe. Rotated shape.
10 = bowling ball. 10 pins to bowl a strike.

If the count is negative, I picture the object red, or blotches of red, bleeding red, writing red, whatever “redness” naturally comes to mind. Make the images, pictures, real life, cartoon, whatever you feel comfortable with. The goofier, bigger, and more action, the easier it is to remember.

When one gets into higher digits; a phonetic visualization technique is used to help create the image for a given number, but is a bit complicated and lengthy to explain. You can read about this in a Harry Lorayne, or other memorization book.

In time it becomes second nature to make an image with the number and vise versa. This was quite handy when I first started counting and struggled keeping the count between rounds; or playing out a low number, long drawn out, soft hand. I still will make an image before playing out a soft hand, so I don’t confuse the count with the value of the current hand. Once the hand is played out, I’ll convert the image to a number, and add the count for the present hand. Without the aid of visualization, I have caught myself mixing up the card count, and value of the hand when trying to do both simultaneously. This is especially helpful with dealers that do not state your hand value.

I happen to have an interest to memorize long strings of numbers prior to card counting for entertainment and other practices. So the images for numbers were already embedded in my head and didn't take much effort to use them for card counting.

 

[London Colin]

Ok, that definitely makes more sense. I get that it can float away if your not concentrating on it directly.

Even if I concentrate on it, it tends not to obey my will, so to speak. And I'm talking about split-second experiences, rather than anything more sustained.

The situation really is quite close to the 'not at all' that I first used to sum it up.

 

[London Colin]

I think anyone can visualize,

'Anyone' sounds like a bit of a stretch. From the little I've read, there seems to be a surprising degree of variation in the inner workings of people's brains. For instance, Synesthesia sounds amazing. I'd never have guessed some people perceive the world in such ways, and yet conversely people with synesthesia naturally tend to assume that everyone experiences things the way they do. (Interestingly, the Wikipedia section on Number form synesthesia sounds a lot like what Richard Feynman's colleague was doing. And Feynman himself apparently had a form of colour synesthesia.)

but not everyone is a visual learner. The other two styles I know of are auditory and tactile, hearing and hands on. Everyone uses all three but I think people tend to favor one over the other two. What is your preference? I'm not even sure that visual in mine, but somewhere along the line I learned it was a good method to learn things so I consciously put it to work.

I don't really know. I would think there is a big distinction to be drawn between memory tricks and learning (i.e. comprehension of new ideas). Different techniques might be more appropriate to different tasks, depending on what it is being learned or memorised.

But if I have to pick one from the list, I suppose it would be 'auditory'. In the past I've tried some of the memory tricks that junior_counter has alluded to, to try to memorise relatively long numbers. The techniqe of building up a story in which swans, bowling balls etc. interact in some way seems to work quite well for me. But I don't (can't) picture anything in my mind; I just replay the story, with one event triggering the next.

 

[aslan]

Usual I’ll repeat the count in my head for slight pauses, but as others have mentioned, is rough with a slow dealer. When there is a distraction, or extended break in dealer action mid-shoe, such as ordering a drink, several people cashing in, chip fill, etc… I’ll use visualization techniques.

Not visualize the number, but visualize an image that represents that number. It’s easier to visualize an object instead of an abstract number. It takes a little bit of effort to correlate an image with a given number and recall it instantly. But if you were able to train yourself to count cards, then you can train for visualization. Make the number correspond to an object that looks like the number, or has a distinct meaning for you.

Example. If the count is + 11, I’ll envision a big yellow football field goal post jutting up from the table. 11 looks like two uprights of a field goal post.

Here are examples of numbers 0-10 and their relating images:

0 = Big egg. Zero has nickname of goose egg.
1 = pen. The number 1 is shaped like a pen.
2 = big white swan. 2 is shaped like a swan gliding through a lake.
3 = small bird. Rotate a 3 and it looks like the stick figure birds in the sky you doodled as a kid. Visualize a small brown robin.
4 = chair. Chair has 4 legs.
5 = star. 5 points to a star.
6 = gun. 6 shooter.
7 = dice. Lucky seven.
8 = hour glass. Shape.
9 = smoking pipe. Rotated shape.
10 = bowling ball. 10 pins to bowl a strike.

If the count is negative, I picture the object red, or blotches of red, bleeding red, writing red, whatever “redness” naturally comes to mind. Make the images, pictures, real life, cartoon, whatever you feel comfortable with. The goofier, bigger, and more action, the easier it is to remember.

When one gets into higher digits; a phonetic visualization technique is used to help create the image for a given number, but is a bit complicated and lengthy to explain. You can read about this in a Harry Lorayne, or other memorization book.

In time it becomes second nature to make an image with the number and vise versa. This was quite handy when I first started counting and struggled keeping the count between rounds; or playing out a low number, long drawn out, soft hand. I still will make an image before playing out a soft hand, so I don’t confuse the count with the value of the current hand. Once the hand is played out, I’ll convert the image to a number, and add the count for the present hand. Without the aid of visualization, I have caught myself mixing up the card count, and value of the hand when trying to do both simultaneously. This is especially helpful with dealers that do not state your hand value.

I happen to have an interest to memorize long strings of numbers prior to card counting for entertainment and other practices. So the images for numbers were already embedded in my head and didn't take much effort to use them for card counting.

I don't worry about plus or minus waiting between rounds because if it were plus I'd have more than a single unit bet out.

I like your pictures; and sometimes, the more outlandish the better you remember them, like a cyclops peeking out from under the blackjack table, you riding a raging bull holding for dear life to his two horns, a three ring circus with lions and your head in one of their mouths, a dancing fork with four tines, a shark fin swimming in the water filled center of the pentagon building, a hex sign on the side of a PA barn engulfed in flames, a man cutting his lawn and accidentally slicing off one of his ten toes, Bo Derek (use your own imagination), Ocean's 11 taking off the Bellagio, the Mirage and the MGM Grand, a baker baking a baker's dozen jelly donuts, four teens playing chicken from N, S, E, and W toward the intersection of two Kansas interstate highways at more than 120 mph, a sweet sixteen birthday cake with 16 candles, but one of them is a trick candle and won't blow out.

But that's all fun and games: two piles of chips will identify any number from 1 to 99 as a placeholder during long pauses like chip tray fills, replacement of bent cards, etc. It's easy, and it doesn't take any memory to do it. A person who is always fumbling with chips can get away with a plethora of memory tricks. And you can always add a few extra flourishes for the curious eye-in-the-sky who is challenged to figure out if you are up to something-- and trust me, some of them do try to figure out such things.

 

[jaygruden]

I use my chips. I had a lengthy explanation in here then hit "delete" when I realized that it's not wise to post technique publicly. Never lose count and just look like a figity gambler.

"I am a bear of very little brain, and big words (and numbers) bother me."
- A.A. Milne, Winnie the Pooh

 

[jaygruden]

two piles of chips will identify any number from 1 to 99 as a placeholder during long pauses like chip tray fills, replacement of bent cards, etc. It's easy, and it doesn't take any memory to do it. A person who is always fumbling with chips can get away with a plethora of memory tricks. And you can always add a few extra flourishes for the curious eye-in-the-sky who is challenged to figure out if you are up to something-- and trust me, some of them do try to figure out such things.[/QUOTE]

Posted mine before I read this....same concept.

 

[pogostick]

lordy

I don't know guys ,but some of the methods you guys post to use to not forget the count would make me forget the count. If I had to visualize 12s & hour glasses ,old Pogo would lose count for shore. It takes two to have a conversation at the table . I never find this to be a big issue. I like setting at third base ,so bring on the fast dealers. Love um Pogo

 

[tthree]

I don't know guys ,but some of the methods you guys post to use to not forget the count would make me forget the count. If I had to visualize 12s & air glasses ,old Pogo would lose count for shore. It takes two to have a conversation at the table . I never find this to be a big issue. I like setting at third base ,so bring on the fast dealers. Love um Pogo

The last time I went to a casino there was a live band playing within feet of my head. I couldn't hear anyone even if I wanted to. It was great no distractions or conversations. My best score all year.