I beat a CSM

[Preston]

While travelling through Oklahmona this week I saw an Indian casino. I stopped in. They had one $5 table and it was CSM.

For some ungodly reason, I decided to play. I had a 17 hour drive ahead of me to Ohio and I was nodding off so I figured if I lost to the CSM I'd be so pissed at myself it'd keep me awake.

They claimed there were 6 decks in the thing. They'd deal out 2 before reloading. So on this I was able to do a partial count. It was pretty effective and I made about $200 with a 1-10 spread.

Then the pit boss came over and saw that I was winning and I started talking about how much I hate this stupid machine I am playing against. The other two people at the table said the same thing (they were losing their ass). So the three of us convinced the pit boss to open a shoe game at the next table.

Then I made a few more $$ over the next couple hours and got the hell out of there.

 

[shadroch]

I'm happy for you,but it is certainly not rare to beat such a machine.thousands of people beat them every day. What would be rare is if you were to beat it on a consistant basis.

 

[kender]

I think he at least beat the casino by getting them to allow them to play a shoe game instead of a CSM. Sounds like he took an disadvantageous situation and made it an advantageous one. Way to go preston.

 

[jimpenn]

CSM...2 Deck Re-load

Preston, was this two deck reload standard procedure while you were at the table? In addition, how did you know they dealt two decks? I assume you came to that conclusion by looking at the discard tray...? Or did the Suit/Dealer tell you? If anyone if familar with CSM's, how many cards are normally dealt prior to reloading? I'm would assume it varies from casino to casino, but I can see how you can get a few hands to play if wonging prior to reload. I was under the opinion that casinos immediately put the cards back into the machine. If this is common procedure (2 deck reload) it can be beat in my opinion. If two player plus dealer in game you will see approximately 10 rounds and if shoe starts out positive from the start you may actually be capable of playing 4/5 rounds with advantage. If player playing there would be an average of 18 rounds will dealt. Interesting.

I would be interested in knowing how the majority of casinos handle placing the discards back into the machine.

Did you count when you were playing? How often did the shoe turn positive during the firt two decks? I would play/wonging in this game if I knew they always wait until waiting for two decks. One last question, how many players were in the game?

Thanks, jp

 

[Preston]

Preston, was this two deck reload standard procedure while you were at the table? In addition, how did you know they dealt two decks? I assume you came to that conclusion by looking at the discard tray...? Or did the Suit/Dealer tell you? If anyone if familar with CSM's, how many cards are normally dealt prior to reloading? I'm would assume it varies from casino to casino, but I can see how you can get a few hands to play if wonging prior to reload. I was under the opinion that casinos immediately put the cards back into the machine. If this is common procedure (2 deck reload) it can be beat in my opinion. If two player plus dealer in game you will see approximately 10 rounds and if shoe starts out positive from the start you may actually be capable of playing 4/5 rounds with advantage. If player playing there would be an average of 18 rounds will dealt. Interesting.

I would be interested in knowing how the majority of casinos handle placing the discards back into the machine.

Did you count when you were playing? How often did the shoe turn positive during the firt two decks? I would play/wonging in this game if I knew they always wait until waiting for two decks. One last question, how many players were in the game?

Thanks, jp

Well, I never really paid much attention to the CSM tables at other casinos. Before I was a counter I did play against a CSM that they reloaded every 2 hands.. this was the first time I actually paid attention to how much they dealt out before reloading, and from now on I am going to pay closer attention. There was a standard discard tray that is what I used to judge how much was dealt. It was usually about 2 decks.. however there was a point the dealer went to about 2 and a half.

I counted. I use the forumla near the back of Renzey's BJ Bluebook II, where he gives the formula of doing the true count per 2 decks, which I think is a better way to play. As far as trends it didn't really have any, I had some strings of cards that went negative, and some that went positive, but there was rarely a significant count difference. The maximum number of players at that table was 4 but generally it was either me and one other person or me and the dealer heads up.

What would further help our cause is if we were able to see how these machines are bulit and store/shuffle the cards.

 

[tribute]

Oklahoma

CSM or not, I don't like Oklahoma games. The ante requirement keeps me driving down the highway. Fifty cents a hand adds up really fast.

 

[ScottH]

CSM or not, I don't like Oklahoma games. The ante requirement keeps me driving down the highway. Fifty cents a hand adds up really fast.

Blackjack with ante? I would NOT like that. Besides, quarters just slow the game down, and they obvously cost you money.

 

[tribute]

Actually they have yellow 25 cent or 50 cent chips issued to you at buy-in. There is a circle on the felt designated for the ante chips. The dealer grabs a chip from your stack on each hand. After playing there one day, I decided this is the worst kind of blackjack on the planet. I'll take my bankroll (what's left of it) and go back to Louisiana!

 

[Mikeaber]

Actually they have yellow 25 cent or 50 cent chips issued to you at buy-in. There is a circle on the felt designated for the ante chips. The dealer grabs a chip from your stack on each hand. After playing there one day, I decided this is the worst kind of blackjack on the planet. I'll take my bankroll (what's left of it) and go back to Louisiana!

Been there and done that in Oklahoma. The only reason to go there now is some marginal VP and highly discounted smokes. Sometimes cheaper gas.

Native Lights located about 2 miles south of the Kansas/Oklahoma border on highway 77, has three Blackjack tables with $5 to $500 bets. There is a $.50 ante for each $100 bet and they are all three dealt out of 5-deck CSMs. AND, the dang tables are ALWAYS full! There is one table back in a corner that is seldom dealt that is hand shuffled with 6-decks.

Down the road about 7 more miles in Newkirk, the KAW casino has $2 to $25 tables, hand shuffled 6-deck with good pen. Their ante is a flat $.25 per hand. Still SUCKS but it's better than Native Lights. KAW seldom runs more than 2 tables though they have 4 available. I no longer play there either.

I bide my time and make the 190 mile drive up to Kansas City and AmeriStar or about the same distance north of Topeka to Sac & Fox or The Golden Eagle where they have good games without the ante!

 

[tribute]

The only positive thing that happened to me in Oklahoma was getting paid a $100 bonus for three blackjacks in a row. I still will not go back. The gambling ship off the Texas coast is better than anywhere in Oklahoma!

 

[NDN21]

I beat a CSM.

Actually they have yellow 25 cent or 50 cent chips issued to you at buy-in. There is a circle on the felt designated for the ante chips. The dealer grabs a chip from your stack on each hand. After playing there one day, I decided this is the worst kind of blackjack on the planet. I'll take my bankroll (what's left of it) and go back to Louisiana!

Only in Oklahoma. I have never seen of heard of a dealer reaching into a player's stack and helping himself.

I think I might go play at the Lucky Star just so I can yell out "WHAT THE HELL!?!?!" when the dealer grabs my stack!!

Also in the poker room at Lucky Star they do the "squares" for the Monday Night Football games with $250 for exact order and $100 for reverse order of the score. Isn't that sports wagering (and therefore illegal in the state of Oklahoma)?

 

[tribute]

I think I got off topic.

Let me clarify. The dealer only takes ante chips from your ante circle located to the right of your betting spot. You may place the ante chip, one at a time yourself, or some players place a row of 5 or 6 chips so the dealer can "grab" one for each hand of play. The dealer does not reach into your playing stack at the rail. (Just as I don't ever reach over and help myself to chips out of the dealer's chip tray! I saw a guy do just that, one time.)