If Im Wonging What Should My Max Bet Be??

[luv2playbj]

Hey,

If I have 3,000 in my pocket and im wonging a 6 deck shoe and an 8 deck shoe what should my max bet be and at what TC am I looking for to come in using the point 3 level count?

My other question is ... if I have a casino that has 8 decks but they offer a lot more better comps if I play there rather then the casino that has 6 decks ... should I try playing at the 8 deck casino or still stick with the 6 deck? Appreciate your responses.

Thanks

 

[sagefr0g]

Hey,

If I have 3,000 in my pocket and im wonging a 6 deck shoe and an 8 deck shoe what should my max bet be and at what TC am I looking for to come in using the point 3 level count?

My other question is ... if I have a casino that has 8 decks but they offer a lot more better comps if I play there rather then the casino that has 6 decks ... should I try playing at the 8 deck casino or still stick with the 6 deck? Appreciate your responses.

Thanks

is the three grand your total bankroll or your trip bankroll, if your trip bankroll what is your total bankroll? is your total bankroll reasonably replenishable? what percent risk of ruin are you willing to accept for your lifetime play, for your trip?
with respect to the better comps with the eight deck game you need to convert the value of the comps to ev to see how the eight deck game stacks up relative to the six deck game.
best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Hey,

If I have 3,000 in my pocket and im wonging a 6 deck shoe and an 8 deck shoe what should my max bet be and at what TC am I looking for to come in using the point 3 level count?

My other question is ... if I have a casino that has 8 decks but they offer a lot more better comps if I play there rather then the casino that has 6 decks ... should I try playing at the 8 deck casino or still stick with the 6 deck? Appreciate your responses.

Thanks

I Wong shoes under the exact same conditions, with $3K in my pocket, and I usually max out my bets at one hand of $200 or 2 hands of $125. This is in a game with late surrender. I usually don't Wong in, but I sit down at the shuffle and Wong out. Wonging in (backcounting) doesn't make you all that much more money but it does make accruing the comps more awkward.

The risk of ruin playing the way I do is around 3% for 400 hands (an evening of play) and that's acceptable to me for the $60/hr win rate I get.

If you are Wonging (especially backcounting) 6D isn't all that big of an advantage over 8D. What you are looking for is penetration, above all. Next in importance is late surrender, then the other rules (S17, RSA) and then 6D over 8D. Most comps are not worth it for table games but there are exceptions (like Foxwoods and their gas cards!) so I'd have to know more about the comps to know if the 8D game is better on account of it. Remember though, they can take away your comps any time they want. Not so easy with your cash.

 

[SystemsTrader]

I wong almost exclusively in my playing. Penetration being equal I would much rather wong a six deck shoe anyday. From my personal experience it is less taxing on the brain. You don't have to count as long for positive counts to come up and shuffles also come up quicker so you can give up on a mediocre count for a new shoe starting up.

 

[luv2playbj]

My total bankroll is going to be 3,000 total if im wonging to come in at +2 TC how much should I start of betting and what should my max be ?

Thanks For The Replies

 

[sagefr0g]

My total bankroll is going to be 3,000 total if im wonging to come in at +2 TC how much should I start of betting and what should my max be ?

ten dollars max at the tc=+2
twenty dollars max at tc=+3
thirty dollars max at tc=+4
thirtyfive dollars max at tc=+5
thirty five dollars should be your max bet so as to have a comfortable risk of ruin. that is in my opinion a bit overbetting but hopefully you'll have some luck. this should be ok if you have a replenishable bankroll.
if bankroll is not replenishable your could try:
five dollars at tc=+2
ten dollars at tc=+3
fifteen dollars at tc=+4
twenty dollars at tc=+5
ROR would be much better then.
thats my opinion your mileage may vary.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[Automatic Monkey]

My total bankroll is going to be 3,000 total if im wonging to come in at +2 TC how much should I start of betting and what should my max be ?

Thanks For The Replies

What would I do with the money? Come in at $50. Stop at $150 or 2x$100. Overbetting for sure, but time is money. This will give you an RoR of a couple of percent for a long evening of play. Beats working for minimum wage. You can do that in a fast food restaurant with zero RoR. How terrible would it be for you if you lost your money?

 

[Cass]

What would I do with the money? Come in at $50. Stop at $150 or 2x$100. Overbetting for sure, but time is money. This will give you an RoR of a couple of percent for a long evening of play. Beats working for minimum wage. You can do that in a fast food restaurant with zero RoR. How terrible would it be for you if you lost your money?

I agree. I always just play for my TRIP ROR. I will set my ror at around 3% or less. If you really want to make some money you have to bet big, and bet often.

 

[countfast]

Wonging

Luv to play bj...

I have a couple questions. Are you playing in Vegas, AC, or at an Indian Casino where you don't have the option of going across the street and playing another house? This makes a big difference in my opinion because if it's a local casino they will be on to you in no time. To successfully wong you have to hit and run. It's like betting the horses, if you play every race you will be a loser. You have to pick your spots and that is exactly what you are doing by wonging. I also believe in your situation a Frog's amounts are better suited for you. For some reason I don't believe you are a veteran player or you wouldn't have asked the question. That's ok. Auto Monkey brings up another good point about wonging out verses in. A mixture of both should be your agenda. Backcount the first table and wong in if a positive shoe develops. If not go to a second table and sit down playing from the start with a $5/10 bet. Wong out of second shoe if negative shoe develops. Only buy in for $100 at a time so they won't ask you to color up prior to wonging out. You can just walk away and the dealer won't be asking you for color, in addition to already having your chips for the next playable shoe.

Good/Bad Comps...I'm assuming one will give you a room verses the other a hamberger. Forget the comps if you are keying of wonging and play the 6D shoe. As mentioned, additional opportunities will come quicker. When I wong an 8D game I figure getting a play every 6th attempt. This is why if this is your local house you won't last long prior to management telling you they don't want your blackjack action. I like a 4/1 spread when play locals. This has never attracted attention, but most of the time I just usually break even with a comp'd room. I'm satisfied breaking even with room and enjoying the game and no heat. I don't play blackjack to make money, just not lose any.

 

[hopson77]

Risk of ruin calculator

Is this an acceptable RoR calculator?

(Dead link: http://www.poker-tools-online.com/riskofruin.html)

I know it says poker in the URL, but it's about the same thing, or so it appears to me. I assume a win rate of .91 per hour and a SD of 27. This way you can easily calculate your Trip/Total Bankroll RoR. Though I would imagine one would have to adjust the SD for a more aggressive spread/ramp. Last weekend I was getting more 14s and 15s than R. Kelly in positive counts in positive counts.

As for comps, what does it generally take to get a comped room? I'm a red chip player, so I assume I'd have to play for ages and rathole all of my winnings to get a room out of them. Thoughts?

 

[Knox]

What you are looking for is penetration, above all. Next in importance is late surrender, then the other rules (S17, RSA) and then 6D over 8D.

H17 will cost you .20% vs. S17, while late surrender is worth 0.08%. Why do you say surrender is worth more to the player?

 

[ScottH]

H17 will cost you .20% vs. S17, while late surrender is worth 0.08%. Why do you say surrender is worth more to the player?

Late surrender is worth more to a CARD COUNTER, not the basic strategy player.

 

[Knox]

Late surrender is worth more to a CARD COUNTER, not the basic strategy player.

Interesting comment that makes sense. But it would be more helpful if backed with some data to support it.

Do you have any information on the advantage late surrender provides a counter under the various systems?

From memory (I don't have the book with me), KO has at least 4-5 index plays related to late surrender. If I recall correctly they trigger at the key count, which is not that high. They are also common plays such as 14 v 10, 16 v 9, 15 v 9, etc.

So I believe you when you say it is worth more than 0.08% to a counter, but I would like to know how much more. Then I can properly assess my advantage and figure out where I want to play. I might also be willing to take more risk ($10 table min. vs. $5 min) if the table offered surrender.

I felt like surrender really helped me a lot at Hilton LV. I went through this string of 16 v. 10 and I just kept giving them up. And I once again forgot my book so I didn't even have the easy-to-remember index plays! I thought I had memorized all the surrender plays, but I looked at the book when I got home and found I had misread the chart on surrender!

Side note: I wonder if surrendering a lot, including going against basic strategy, would be a red flag to the pit that you are counting?

 

[sagefr0g]

Interesting comment that makes sense. But it would be more helpful if backed with some data to support it.

Do you have any information on the advantage late surrender provides a counter under the various systems? .............................................

So I believe you when you say it is worth more than 0.08% to a counter, but I would like to know how much more. ..................................

Side note: I wonder if surrendering a lot, including going against basic strategy, would be a red flag to the pit that you are counting?

i checked Schesinger's chart for the fab4 (Blackjack Attack). if i understood the chart correctly a hi/lo player gleans 0.121% using the fab4 (and i think a 1:12 spread was the benchmark). i believe this would be on top of the 0.08% for the basic strategist player. i'm not sure if i interpreted Schesinger's chart correctly. hopefully more knowledgeable folks will confirm or correct me here.
from my experience i don't believe involking late surrender is going to draw much heat. your mileage may vary.

best regards,
mr fr0g

 

[EasyRhino]

Side note: I wonder if surrendering a lot, including going against basic strategy, would be a red flag to the pit that you are counting?

Surrender isn't too common of an option out here, so when I was in a shop that was offering it, I saw one of two reactions among players:

1) Utter astonishment at the very concept
2) Surrendering like crazy

And a few people surrendered according to more or less basic strategy. Surrending outside of BS would probably make the casino love you here. if you surrendered far outside of BS it would probably make them really love.

Situation may be different in a place where surrender is more common. That, and insuring then surrendering is, I believe, considered to be a shortcut to instant heat

 

[ScottH]

Interesting comment that makes sense. But it would be more helpful if backed with some data to support it.

Do you have any information on the advantage late surrender provides a counter under the various systems?

I believe I heard that from zengrifter. Maybe he can help you out with this.

 

[Knox]

Surrender isn't too common of an option out here, so when I was in a shop that was offering it, I saw one of two reactions among players:

1) Utter astonishment at the very concept
2) Surrendering like crazy

And a few people surrendered according to more or less basic strategy. Surrending outside of BS would probably make the casino love you here. if you surrendered far outside of BS it would probably make them really love.

Situation may be different in a place where surrender is more common. That, and insuring then surrendering is, I believe, considered to be a shortcut to instant heat

I actually invoked the wrath of a couple of marginal players at the Hilton LV for my surrender plays. I was only surrendering the obvious BS plays, and they were convinced I was the cause of any hand they lost. Once I was at third base and an extremely lucky but weak player though my surrendering meant I was a total wuss. Then I was at first base and the only other player at third base thought I was screwing up his cards when I surrendered rather than hit 16 v 10, 15 v 10, etc. I explained to them loudly and clearly that I did not care one tiny bit what they though of my play and did not want to hear their comments either. I was not about to apologize to a pair of obvious morons when I was playing my hands correctly.

 

[countfast]

I was on a trip this past four days and received static from many for my third base plays. I tell them it will be better next time or simply buy my hand. Not one person offered to purchase hand so I just continued to bust their balls.

 

[mdlbj]

3000 br

You should be playing at a 5 min table. 6/1 spread. wong out @ -1 back in @ +2. 6d das LS DA2 .

Hey,

If I have 3,000 in my pocket and im wonging a 6 deck shoe and an 8 deck shoe what should my max bet be and at what TC am I looking for to come in using the point 3 level count?

My other question is ... if I have a casino that has 8 decks but they offer a lot more better comps if I play there rather then the casino that has 6 decks ... should I try playing at the 8 deck casino or still stick with the 6 deck? Appreciate your responses.

Thanks

 

[bluewhale]

hey guys, i live in canada and virtually all the games here are identical....
8 decks, DAS, resplit to 4 hands, S17, no surrender, 70-75% pen.

can this game be reasonably profitable?
i plan to wong out @ -1 and in at +3, using the hi/low