If you are going to split Tens...

[callipygian]

If you are going to split Tens, you might as well double down on Soft 20 also.

Not necessarily, if you're playing a game that allows resplits. Splitting TT has a lower index than doubling A9 because of the possibility of resplitting.

They might get rounded to the same integer, though.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

The sim

OK I just ran it. Game conditions: 6D, 1.5 pen, S17. Counting RPC, running a 1-8 spread with Wongout at -2. Both splitting 10's vs. 5 and 6 and DD A9 vs. 5 and 6 were done at TC=+10, which is about the same as High-Low TC=+5.

Win rates are per 100 hands, with a $25 unit.

DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36
Don't DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36

DD A9 vs. 6: $1.45
Don't DD A9 vs. 6: $1.42

Split XX vs. 5: $11.60
Dont split XX vs. 5: $11.41

Split XX vs. 6: $12.19
Dont split XX vs. 6: $11.98

So in this game the value of the ten splitting is 40 cents per hundred hands. Barely worth it. The value of the DD on A9 is 3 cents per hundred hands. Not worth it.

 

[bjcount]

OK I just ran it. Game conditions: 6D, 1.5 pen, S17. Counting RPC, running a 1-8 spread with Wongout at -2. Both splitting 10's vs. 5 and 6 and DD A9 vs. 5 and 6 were done at TC=+10, which is about the same as High-Low TC=+5.

Win rates are per 100 hands, with a $25 unit.

DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36
Don't DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36

DD A9 vs. 6: $1.45
Don't DD A9 vs. 6: $1.42

Split XX vs. 5: $11.60
Dont split XX vs. 5: $11.41

Split XX vs. 6: $12.19
Dont split XX vs. 6: $11.98

So in this game the value of the ten splitting is 40 cents per hundred hands. Barely worth it. The value of the DD on A9 is 3 cents per hundred hands. Not worth it.

AM,

That TC=+10 is RA at 1DTC? The play isn't worth the action since you'll be at max bet.

BJC

 

[zengrifter]

This true 5,6 you talk about, is this the point at which you might consider making these plays, if so for how many decks and what rules?

I am an avid 10-splitter. See ZGI. zg

 

[zengrifter]

Not necessarily, if you're playing a game that allows resplits. Splitting TT has a lower index than doubling A9 because of the possibility of resplitting.

They might get rounded to the same integer, though.

The index is rightly the SAME. zg

 

[zengrifter]

the value of the ten splitting is 40 cents per hundred hands. Barely worth it. The value of the DD on A9 is 3 cents per hundred hands. Not worth it.

I don't look at it as "per 100 hands" - to me the value is right then and there when I'm faced with the opportunity.
ie, the value in that moment is considerably higher, so GO FOR IT!! zg

 

[moo321]

Let's not forget risk aversion and certainty correlations. There is more to life than EV, folks. However, if you get a +12 TC and you don't split tens or double A9, you're probably leaving several hour's expectation on the table. I can understand the heat aversion, and risk aversion, but at some point we have to do it.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Let's not forget risk aversion and certainty correlations. There is more to life than EV, folks. However, if you get a +12 TC and you don't split tens or double A9, you're probably leaving several hour's expectation on the table. I can understand the heat aversion, and risk aversion, but at some point we have to do it.

Splitting 10's is understandable, and that's why the play is in the Illustrious 18. But doubling A9 is not. It's only adding a few percent advantage even at a huge count. So we're talking about leaving a red or a green chip on the table, not several hours of EV. If you desire to raise profit and raise risk, you'd be better off saving the extra bet and just betting more on the next hand.

 

[blackjack avenger]

OK I just ran it. Game conditions: 6D, 1.5 pen, S17. Counting RPC, running a 1-8 spread with Wongout at -2. Both splitting 10's vs. 5 and 6 and DD A9 vs. 5 and 6 were done at TC=+10, which is about the same as High-Low TC=+5.

Win rates are per 100 hands, with a $25 unit.

DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36
Don't DD A9 vs. 5: $1.36

DD A9 vs. 6: $1.45
Don't DD A9 vs. 6: $1.42

Split XX vs. 5: $11.60
Dont split XX vs. 5: $11.41

Split XX vs. 6: $12.19
Dont split XX vs. 6: $11.98

So in this game the value of the ten splitting is 40 cents per hundred hands. Barely worth it. The value of the DD on A9 is 3 cents per hundred hands. Not worth it.

Given the above:
For splitting tens vs 5,6
As a % increase in win, splitting increase EV by about 3.33% for just these 2 plays. Griffin, Schlesinger, Snyder and Wong have valued these indices for years.

Of course most important:
I like them:joker::whip:

One may decide not to use them because of heat/etc., but that is personel choice.

 

[cardcounter0]

Game conditions: 6D, 1.5 pen, S17. Counting RPC, running a 1-8 spread with Wongout at -2.

Barely worth it.

Fixed your post. You are using RA indexes and only spreading 1:8.

Try standing on A,7 vs T. You will see that hitting A,7 vs T is also 'barely' worth it per 100 hands.

 

[jay28]

Double soft 21?

Just curious, after splitting 10's and catching an Ace, does anyone ever double soft 21?

 

[cardcounter0]

Just curious, after splitting 10's and catching an Ace, does anyone ever double soft 21?

No. First you are getting 3:2 on the "soft 21", so your double is putting up twice as much money to maybe win 1/4 more, instead of getting 3:2 100% sure thing. It would almost be impossible to have a favorable enough condition to do so.

Even if you 'knew' that the next card was a T, it would probably be better to play the 14% advantage of getting a T as your first card on the next hand rather than making a move.

 

[bjcount]

No. First you are getting 3:2 on the "soft 21", so your double is putting up twice as much money to maybe win 1/4 more, instead of getting 3:2 100% sure thing. It would almost be impossible to have a favorable enough condition to do so.

Even if you 'knew' that the next card was a T, it would probably be better to play the 14% advantage of getting a T as your first card on the next hand rather than making a move.

Let me know where they pay 3:2 on 10 splits and pulling a "soft 21". I want to go there.

BJC

 

[cardcounter0]

Thanks for kindly pointing out my missing the original poster was talking about soft 21 after splitting tens. My answer remains the same you are not going to see an advantage large enough on a double to override the almost sure win of 21.

"Let me know where they pay 3:2 on 10 splits and pulling a "soft 21". I want to go there."

It is called "Spanish 21", one of the reasons that game can sometimes be more profitable than blackjack.

 

[21forme]

It is called "Spanish 21", one of the reasons that game can sometimes be more profitable than blackjack.

Sp21 does not pay 3:2 on a "soft 21" after splitting aces. It pays 1:1.

 

[cardcounter0]

The Meskwaki casino in Iowa Spanish 21 game pays 3:2 on blackjacks obtained after splitting Aces or face cards, in addition to the 3:2 payout on regular blackjacks.

 

[zengrifter]

Just curious, after splitting 10's and catching an Ace, does anyone ever double soft 21?

Yes BUT its more obnoxious than simply splitting 10s and it requires a VERY HIGH count. zg

 

[21forme]

The Meskwaki casino in Iowa Spanish 21 game pays 3:2 on blackjacks obtained after splitting Aces or face cards, in addition to the 3:2 payout on regular blackjacks.

I was aware of that from the book, but considering it's only casino in the world with that rule, I generalized. Have you ever played there?

 

[cardcounter0]

I don't think generalizations are allowed on this board.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[BlodiaInc]

I was aware of that from the book, but considering it's only casino in the world with that rule, I generalized. Have you ever played there?

From what I've been told, a casino in WA has implemented this same rule, but only for splitting aces... not tens...