IMO, Card Counting is a scam.

M

MDcounter

New Member
LONG time researcher (I've read books along with this forum), long time lurker. I used to think of card counting as a pretty efficient way of betting, if done right. Card counting, along with multiple other techniques used to gain advantage, should make money right?

Card counting may just be a scheme that people use to sell it as a product, and make money via sells.

This isn't to insult anyone at all. I would love to pursue counting but am very skeptical after so much research. Can someone here prove me wrong? And how much do You profit from this? I would like actual numbers please. Thanks


-md
 
MDcounter said:
LONG time researcher (I've read books along with this forum), long time lurker. I used to think of card counting as a pretty efficient way of betting, if done right. Card counting, along with multiple other techniques used to gain advantage, should make money right?

Card counting may just be a scheme that people use to sell it as a product, and make money via sells.

This isn't to insult anyone at all. I would love to pursue counting but am very skeptical after so much research. Can someone here prove me wrong? And how much do You profit from this? I would like actual numbers please. Thanks


-md
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You claim to have done a lot of research and you don't know where the profit comes from nor what the numbers? Apparently you haven't done much.
 
MDcounter said:
LONG time researcher (I've read books along with this forum), long time lurker. I used to think of card counting as a pretty efficient way of betting, if done right. Card counting, along with multiple other techniques used to gain advantage, should make money right?

Card counting may just be a scheme that people use to sell it as a product, and make money via sells.

This isn't to insult anyone at all. I would love to pursue counting but am very skeptical after so much research. Can someone here prove me wrong? And how much do You profit from this? I would like actual numbers please. Thanks
-md
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memebers results 2009

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=16851
 
Thanks. Let's take FLASH1296 for example. He made 2.2 units..$55/hour which pretty decent as a full time job. But still, its $55/hour.

His units were $25, so his BR had to be quite big. Lots of money to potentially lose, for $55 per hour. Then you have to add up all the time spent practicing, traveling, and studying. On top of that, he has nearly 2k posts and almost 1000hrs of play in 2009, which means he's REALLY skilled at card counting.

With this being said..I doubt anyone can make substantially more than $55 per hour from card counting.
 
MDcounter said:
Thanks. Let's take FLASH1296 for example. He made 2.2 units..$55/hour which pretty decent as a full time job. But still, its $55/hour.

His units were $25, so his BR had to be quite big. Lots of money to potentially lose, for $55 per hour. Then you have to add up all the time spent practicing, traveling, and studying. On top of that, he has nearly 2k posts and almost 1000hrs of play in 2009, which means he's REALLY skilled at card counting.

With this being said..I doubt anyone can make substantially more than $55 per hour from card counting.
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Well, now you have changed the criteria of your thread. :confused: You have gone from saying card counting is a scam that you can't make money, to now putting some sort amount that would make it worthwhile to you. Only you can decide what that amount is and if the risk is worth it.

I will say than on Wong's website, there was a similar thread (entitled tally up time) where different members posted there 2009 results and there were some pretty impressive results there. A number of people made 6 figures in less than 500 hours. I am sure there were other AP techniques besides counting involved though.
 
kewljason said:
Well, now you have changed the criteria of your thread. :confused: You have gone from saying card counting is a scam that you can't make money, to now putting some sort amount that would make it worthwhile to you. Only you can decide what that amount is and if the risk is worth it.

I will say than on Wong's website, there was a similar thread (entitled tally up time) where different members posted there 2009 results and there were some pretty impressive results there. A number of people made 6 figures in less than 500 hours. I am sure there were other AP techniques besides counting involved though.
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There is also a bias to consider since there would be counters that had a losing year that would be less willing to post their results.
 
SleightOfHand said:
There is also a bias to consider since there would be counters that had a losing year that would be less willing to post their results.
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i don't have a hardcore log book, but i do keep track of how much im up or down, and i have a memo pad dedicated to my wonging career that i've just started. and considering i've had about 6 months playing time but over a years worth of practice, i havent put as many hours into it as most people here. it's a hobby for me.
 
Woooo - it's all a big conspiricy - hundreds of people are posting online about their longterm successful results using card counting just to help shill a few dozen authors books. Seriously - how much money do you think these books actually earn the authors?
On top of how completely rediculous the above assertation is, you've - MDcounter - clearly not done half the research you are claiming. If you had you'd be able to make up your mind for yourself rather than asking other posters to prove that card counting works via short term positive results, which actually show nothing.
We've finally found something on the main boards that belongs in the ZenZone.

RJT.
 
MDcounter said:
LONG time researcher (I've read books along with this forum), long time lurker. I used to think of card counting as a pretty efficient way of betting, if done right. Card counting, along with multiple other techniques used to gain advantage, should make money right?

Card counting may just be a scheme that people use to sell it as a product, and make money via sells.

This isn't to insult anyone at all. I would love to pursue counting but am very skeptical after so much research. Can someone here prove me wrong? And how much do You profit from this? I would like actual numbers please. Thanks


-md
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Welcome back BillytheBJKid!
 
Not a scam but most counters do not know how to win!

Been doing this for over 30 years and last year was the first time that I won over six figures and it will probably be the last time also. I say that because my win rate was a little more than double what it should have been for the hours played, so I had a great year on the positive variance curve.

The problem for most people who attempt card counting, even some who do it for years but mainly newcomers is they are not ready or will never be ready.
Some cardcount and do not have basic strategy down pat. Others after a horrid streak of variance at high counts become fearful of spreading enough. Still others will steam and overbet their bankrolls when things are going poorly.
Some just play under poor conditions, while others neglect using indices.
There will be guys who when down continue to play when they are no longer alert and tend to start making big mistakes. There are probably dozens of other reasons, most of which have to do with the emotional end of putting money on the line.

If you can convince the casino that you are a unknowing ploppy but play with the near perfection of a machine, you can win by counting for a prolonged period.

ihate17
 
shiznites said:
I got 80 hours in total counting and I'm up 145 units. Best scam of my life.
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This is an example of what I'm trying to get at. 145 units for 80 hours..thats 2weeks worth of work... I'm safely assuming you made anywhere between $2,000-$3,500

My point is not to say that counting doesn't make money, but that it can only make so much for the hours played. At most, you will be making as much as someone who makes 75k/year as a career.

If ANYONE can prove me wrong and honestly say they make more than
75k/yr within their first few years of counting, please tell me.
 
MDcounter said:
This is an example of what I'm trying to get at. 145 units for 80 hours..thats 2weeks worth of work... I'm safely assuming you made anywhere between $2,000-$3,500

My point is not to say that counting doesn't make money, but that it can only make so much for the hours played. At most, you will be making as much as someone who makes 75k/year as a career.

If ANYONE can prove me wrong and honestly say they make more than
75k/yr within their first few years of counting, please tell me.
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So unless you make more than most people in America it's a scam?

Sounds to me like jobs are scams.
 
MDcounter said:
This is an example of what I'm trying to get at. 145 units for 80 hours..thats 2weeks worth of work... I'm safely assuming you made anywhere between $2,000-$3,500

My point is not to say that counting doesn't make money, but that it can only make so much for the hours played. At most, you will be making as much as someone who makes 75k/year as a career.

If ANYONE can prove me wrong and honestly say they make more than
75k/yr within their first few years of counting, please tell me.
Click to expand...
75K a year is bad? Who is this guy:laugh:
 
MDcounter said:
This is an example of what I'm trying to get at. 145 units for 80 hours..thats 2weeks worth of work... I'm safely assuming you made anywhere between $2,000-$3,500

My point is not to say that counting doesn't make money, but that it can only make so much for the hours played. At most, you will be making as much as someone who makes 75k/year as a career.

If ANYONE can prove me wrong and honestly say they make more than
75k/yr within their first few years of counting, please tell me.
Click to expand...

Counting is a tough gig. It's not like the days of yore when single deck, no cut card games were the norm. Millions were made back then, a lot of bones broken too. Everything evolves, gambling, especially gambling against the house, evolves the fastest. Tough to find a single deck game today, even tougher to find a deeply cut SD game. So yes, the possibility of making millions in BJ has decreased 100 fold today. But APs have evolved too, They came out with 6, 8D shoes, APs came out with shuffle tracking. SD and DD got crappier rules, APs came out with ace tracking. Spanish 21? different count technique. So yes, counting alone probably wont get you the millions. counting was invented way back when for the SD games. you gotta add to your arsenal if you want to survive. if you only count against today's games, that's like fighting an f-16 jet with a biplane. Or taking on a tank with a musket. You think a business that lives, and breathes gambling and employs thousands of people since the 1960s is going to be stopped by something invented in the 60s? Even worse, some schmuck that just learned a 60s technique a few days ago in his spare time who thinks he can take on a multi billion dollar industry with millions of employees?

How many jobs out there can someone make $75g with no experience? I can't think of any. I can think of some starting to show up after a few years of experience under the belt, but that still isn't very many. Now let's say you do start making $75g after a few years at this "job," what is the maximum you could ever make at this job? Sky's the limit? or perhaps maybe $100g-150g? I can assure you in BJ that sky's the limit, as long as you're good at it. I'm damn good at my day job, but there is certainly a cap to my salary no matter how hard I work and show success.

Where did you come up with this number of $75g a year is the most one can make at BJ? It sounds completely arbitrary. But I will agree that it is tough to make millions at it today, but it is not impossible. Shiit, why don't you give me an example of an easy way to make millions? Can't think of one can you?
 
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