Importance of how often cards are shuffled

[black_armada]

Hello.

I started playing Black Jack not so long time ago. I read a little bit about card counting systems. I tried to use very simple K-O and Hi/Low counting systems. However, to my mind, one important thing is missing to all card counting systems that I have already read. That thing is how often played cards are shuffled by the dealer. There I play dealer shuffles and card counting starts from the beginning then 45-58 cards are dealt. (Black Jack is played with 6 decks). So, is it possible to beat the dealer with K-O or Hi-Low counting systems? Should I use more complex counting systems or look for another casino there cards are not shuffled so often? I am just curious to know how often cards are shuffled there you play.

 

[dacium]

How far into the shoe a dealer goes before shuffling is called the penetration.

Normally you want to look for 75% to 80% on 6 deck shoe, which means they shuffles it after about 4.5 decks have been played and 1.5 decks left.

Are you saying they reshuffle after just 50 cards? in that case you are wasting your time. Rememer that the true count is the running count divided by decks remaining. So to get a true count of +2 you would need to be +10 at the 5 deck remaining mark, but only +4 at the 2 deck remaining mark. Obviously +4 is far far far more common than +10, so the more penetration the more often you have good count. If you do not have at least 75% penetration you have to wong, spreading won't save you because there will be to many hands on low counts.

 

[black_armada]

Thank you for you assistance. Penetration is really very low there I play. Dealer really shuffles cards justa fter one deck is dealt. So penetration is only 17 % and I am going to look for another casino. Thank you once more for saving my time.

 

[moo321]

What a terrible idea! I've never heard of penetration worse than 50% in a shoe game. Is this online or something?

 

[ihate17]

What country?

If you do not mind, what country are you playing in?

Also, is this a hand shuffled or machine shuffled game?
I would be completely amazed if it was hand shuffled and that any casino was that stupid to shuffle 6 decks after two or three hands to a full table. Think of all the money the casino could make during those constant time that the dealer is shuffling and shuffling and shuffling.

Counting on this game is a waste of time, dealing this game for the casino is also a waste of time.

ihate17

 

[black_armada]

Well, I play at Lithuania and it is a machine shuffled game (it is not online casino). It was allowed to play in casino only 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe it could be the reason why the rules are so unfriendly for players. Nevertheless, casino there I play is the leader in the Baltic region. However, I am searching for new casino and better rules.
By the way, a few times I played Black Jack at (Dead link: http://www.willhill.com). However, I wrote them email asking how often they suffle the cards. The answer surprised me a lot - they shuffle cards after each game. From that time I used to think that it is a common rule that online casinos shuffle cards after each game. As far as I understand from your comments, I was wrong. I am happy about that, but nevertheless I have more satisfaction playing in the real casino.

 

[EasyRhino]

Yes, expect every online casino to shuffle each hand. No card counting there!

Now, the machines at your casino in Lithuania. they may be either continuous shuffle machine (CSM) or automatic shuffle machine (ASM).

A CSM is always shuffling the cards. After after a few hands are played, the dealer picks up the cards and drops them back into the CSM, where they get shuffled with everything else. You can't do any counting with these.

With an ASM, at the end of a shoe, the dealer takes all of the cards, loads them inside. They get shuffled, then he takes all of them out, loads them in a shoe, and they are dealt normally.

It sounds kind of like your casino has CSMs?

 

[black_armada]

From your description, I understand that it is CSM. I have a bad feeling that other casinos in Lithuania also use CSM. Nevertheless, it would be great to come to the USA someday.

 

[21forme]

Some games are made for suckers only. I was in Costa Rica last year and checked out 2 casinos. Both were 6D, 50% pen, and paid 1:1 on Blackjack.

 

[ihate17]

CSM's

From your description, I understand that it is CSM. I have a bad feeling that other casinos in Lithuania also use CSM. Nevertheless, it would be great to come to the USA someday.

In areas of the world where the competition between casinos is not strong or non existant CSM's are very popular with the casinos, Lithuania would be such a place. The casino gets more hands played because the dealer never has to shuffle, the machine is constantly doing it for them. In some other areas, such as Macoa, it seems that the different casinos have reached an agreement and they all use these machines. The history of this shows us that if the player is given a choice, many players would move to either the hand shuffled game or an ASM game.

ihate17