Interesting occurance-CSM

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Voodude

Member
Had something strange happen at a CSM last week (I realize most here avoid these like the plague) however I play them from time to time. Anyway, the dealer was VERY new, he stated it was his first day multiple times, was clearly nervous and appeared very young. He was not putting the discards back into the CSM and made a number of errors- at one point he drew several cards to get 20 and declared a bust and paid the table, paid an older gentleman SEVENTY FIVE dollars for a 25 dollar blackjack, and failed to take my losing lucky ladies side bet several times.

His generosity ended after a dispute with one of the players got the floors attention and they removed the dealer shortly after. Right before leaving the table the floor notices the discard rack and tells him to reload the CSM. I didn't realize it at the time but this kid put the stack of cards into the machine face down (apparently they go face up). The next dealer arrives and cards begin randomly coming out of the machine face up, but not in "packs". The machine holds 6 decks and the kid fed about a deck and a half in wrong side up. As the cards were coming out I began to wonder if there is a plausible way to track or somehow exploit these machines and play with an advantage. I have had very good luck with the LL side bet at these machines but I'm sure that was just luck. Anyone else have experience or thoughts on these?
 
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MangoJ

Well-Known Member
They are called shuffling machines, because they do shuffle the cards. Why should they come out in packs ?
 
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Voodude

Member
I didn't mean to indicate that they should come out in packs, I was just clarifying that there appeared to be no significant clumping of the cards. I've seen the inside of these things a couple of times and it appears to be a large wheel. I was surprised more of the face up cards did not come back out in succession. I guess what I'm saying is the machine shuffled better than I thought it would and was curious if anyone had thoughts or ideas about playing effectively against them.
 
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chessplayer

Well-Known Member
What you described is that the CSM does it's shuffling job very well, such that no clumps came out. Now that it does it's job very well, how can you exploit it? You have difficulty to.

Voodude said:
I didn't mean to indicate that they should come out in packs, I was just clarifying that there appeared to be no significant clumping of the cards. I've seen the inside of these things a couple of times and it appears to be a large wheel. I was surprised more of the face up cards did not come back out in succession. I guess what I'm saying is the machine shuffled better than I thought it would and was curious if anyone had thoughts or ideas about playing effectively against them.
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tthree

Banned
I avoid those little robbers like the plague. I think CSMs are rigged. I cannt believe the few times I played them my luck could be that bad. It was a straight downslope of my chip stack. Not more than 1 win in a row but many 3 or more losses in a row. It just seemed wrong.
 
tribute

tribute

Well-Known Member
tthree said:
I avoid those little robbers like the plague. I think CSMs are rigged. I cannt believe the few times I played them my luck could be that bad. It was a straight downslope of my chip stack. Not more than 1 win in a row but many 3 or more losses in a row. It just seemed wrong.
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On one trip I was getting butchered on shoes and DD. In my frustration I moved over to the CSM and won most of it back!
 
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Voodude

Member
tthree said:
I avoid those little robbers like the plague. I think CSMs are rigged. I cannt believe the few times I played them my luck could be that bad. It was a straight downslope of my chip stack. Not more than 1 win in a row but many 3 or more losses in a row. It just seemed wrong.
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Yea I've definitely seen odd things out of those machines - both good and bad. I've hit the lucky ladies matched queen of hearts more than once at the CSM and have never even been dealt it at a shoe. Also very odd streaks (I'm sure just as possible at a shoe, I've just never seen it) where the dealer constantly busts hand after hand, or the opposite- draws perfect cards on stiffs left and right.
 
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MangoJ

Well-Known Member
Voodude said:
Yea I've definitely seen odd things out of those machines - both good and bad. I've hit the lucky ladies matched queen of hearts more than once at the CSM and have never even been dealt it at a shoe. Also very odd streaks (I'm sure just as possible at a shoe, I've just never seen it) where the dealer constantly busts hand after hand, or the opposite- draws perfect cards on stiffs left and right.
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And of course this is all due to the CSM, as it knows how many players are at the table, so it can steer you those cards....
 
V

Voodude

Member
MangoJ said:
And of course this is all due to the CSM, as it knows how many players are at the table, so it can steer you those cards....
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Ha yea, I've heard people seriously claim this! How absurd. A lady sitting near me who played the LL side bet 5$ every hand claimed she wasn't hitting it because the mahine was rigged. I instinctively laughed out loud before I could stop myself. That casinos housing some serious technology to pull that off, especially when they already have an edge:laugh:
 
rrwoods

rrwoods

Well-Known Member
chessplayer said:
What you described is that the CSM does it's shuffling job very well, such that no clumps came out.
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This isn't correct. A truly random shuffle will produce clumps most of the time. If a CSM consistently breaks up clumps, it is far from random.

I don't know whether this is exploitable, but there's a little statistics for ya.
 
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chessplayer

Well-Known Member
I was referring to the clumps he said about the clump of opposite cards fed into the CSM. If this clump came out together then perhaps there was something exploitable.


rrwoods said:
This isn't correct. A truly random shuffle will produce clumps most of the time. If a CSM consistently breaks up clumps, it is far from random.

I don't know whether this is exploitable, but there's a little statistics for ya.
Click to expand...
 
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