Investor offers me $10,000 to start my blackjack career

#1
I recently was given an opportunity from someone to invest $10,000 into my blackjack career. Being a college student with a limited bankroll I'm looking to accept his offer since it can really get me going. At this time I am trying to write up a proposal for him but don't know what information to provide other than what the RoR is going to be. I would like to include how long it would take for me to double the $10,000 investment but don't know of a way to calculate that. I was wondering if anyone here knows of a way to calculate how long it would take, and also if there is any other information I should provide to this potential investor other than the risk of ruin? I am trying to give as much information as possible. I mainly play casinos in PA with standard PA rules but will start playing in NY in September.
 

Meistro

Well-Known Member
#3
Also how many hours of practice have you put in at home? Do you have the shoe, discard tray and 6 deck set up? Before you put 10k of somebody else's money on the line it would be a good idea to make sure that you actually know how to count cards.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#4
Miller said:
I recently was given an opportunity from someone to invest $10,000 into my blackjack career. Being a college student with a limited bankroll I'm looking to accept his offer since it can really get me going. At this time I am trying to write up a proposal for him but don't know what information to provide other than what the RoR is going to be. I would like to include how long it would take for me to double the $10,000 investment but don't know of a way to calculate that. I was wondering if anyone here knows of a way to calculate how long it would take, and also if there is any other information I should provide to this potential investor other than the risk of ruin? I am trying to give as much information as possible. I mainly play casinos in PA with standard PA rules but will start playing in NY in September.
I'm assuming you don't have BJA3 and haven't read the chapter and handbook on team play. In any event, you have to define very carefully exactly what your approach to the game will be and what the projected hourly win rate and standard deviation are. You can also find that in my book, or can generate it using Norm's software, which you must have.

You have to enunciate your plan for how the profits will be split and when distributions of said profits will take place. You have to plan for eventual "margin calls," should you be losing money and not want to cut back on your stakes. Just keep asking questions. All the answers are readily available here.

Don
 
#5
Meistro, I have put in countless hours of practice at home, I have a shoe and 8 decks set up since I mainly play by AC rules. I didn't start hitting the casinos until after 6 months of practice and learning. since then, I have turned a couple hundred dollars into $2,000 with patience, practice, and definitely a little luck. I still have so much to learn but at this time I am confident in my skill, I just don't have the bankroll to back it up. I will definitely include all of what you suggested in my proposal. I just need to know how to calculate the hourly rate.

Don, I don't have BJA3, however, I will own it by the end of the day. I don't have any software at all either (I know, horrible), but since I will be taking this game to the next level I"m going to get anything and everything I need to make sure I am successful. So on that note, what would you say those programs are beside Norm's software? You Say I will be able to calculate things like projected hourly win and standard deviation on Norm's software?
My plan for how the profits would be split was to give weekly installments of 50% of what I made that week. does that make sense? and I wasn't expecting to ask for more money, Do you think it could come to that point if I play with as low of ROR as possible and is that what you mean by "margin calls?"

Thank you so much you two for taking the time to respond to me, I know I'm asking a bunch of questions, I wasn't expected to get such an offer and was unsure of how to present him with a proposal. All of this information is great and I truly appreciate the help, and I'm sure I'll have more questions xD
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#7
"So on that note, what would you say those programs are beside Norm's software?"

None. You own CVCX and CVData, and you have it all.

"You say I will be able to calculate things like projected hourly win and standard deviation on Norm's software?"

That and ten thousand other things. :)

"My plan for how the profits would be split was to give weekly installments of 50% of what I made that week. does that make sense?"

Oh my God, no!! Week one, you win $1,000. You give the investor $500. Week two, you lose $1,000. Now what? He gives you back the money? No, instead, the partnership eats the loss. So, now you're even for two weeks, but somehow, the investor is up $500. You cannot conceivably do it that way. You settle after a certain goal is reached, or after a certain number of hours have been played (and it had better be a LOT of hours! See BJA3, pp. 298-301, but also read the entire chapter 11, as well as "A Random Walk down the Strip," which will be a real eye-opener).

"and I wasn't expecting to ask for more money, Do you think it could come to that point if I play with as low of ROR as possible"

Of course. If you're expecting to just walk into casinos and always walk out with more than you came in with, you're in for a very rude awakening. See BJA3, Table 2.2, page 21. You can play an 8-deck game for 500 hours and still have an 11% chance of being behind at the end.

"and is that what you mean by "margin calls'"?

Yup. Is the ten grand the whole bank, or are you putting in anything? If you lose half the bank, will you cut your stakes in half, or will you ask for more money, so you don't have to cut back?

Keep asking questions. And don't start playing until you understand all the ramifications of your agreement.

Don
 
#9
"Oh my God, no!! Week one, you win $1,000. You give the investor $500. Week two, you lose $1,000. Now what? He gives you back the money? No, instead, the partnership eats the loss. So, now you're even for two weeks, but somehow, the investor is up $500. You cannot conceivably do it that way. You settle after a certain goal is reached, or after a certain number of hours have been played (and it had better be a LOT of hours! See BJA3, pp. 298-301, but also read the entire chapter 11, as well as "A Random Walk down the Strip," which will be a real eye-opener)."

Makes sense, I'm happy I came here for advice. We will most likely settle after a certain goal is reached.

"Is the ten grand the whole bank, or are you putting in anything?"

I'm putting in my current bankroll of two thousand for a total of Twelve thousand

"If you lose half the bank, will you cut your stakes in half, or will you ask for more money, so you don't have to cut back?"

I would cut my stakes in half. I don't want to ask for more money.

The investor and I are going out to a casino tonight in/around Portland, Oregon. I can't find much information on casinos in this area. do you have any recommendations for casinos in this area? As of right now, we are going to the Last Frontier Casino in La Center, WA.
 

Attachments

#11
thanks Rebecca,

That's where we will go then. If it was my choice we would be going at a better time/day, but he wants to go on the weekend so I hope we find good conditions.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#16
Splittingten's said:
Since you own 1/6th of the bank roll does that mean you're going to keep 1/6th of the profits?
He obviously keeps a lot more than 1/6 of the profits. He's the only player. Doesn't that count for something??!!

In a typical arrangement, there would be some percentage split between player(s) and investor(s). Let's say 50-50, just for illustration. So, in this case, the player starts with 50% of the profits. Now, this player-investor also happens to have 1/6 of the profits of the other (investor) 50%, so another 8.33%. In all, the player-investor keeps 58.33% of the profits, while the majority investor keep the remaining 41.67%.

Don
 
#17
The investor and I went out a few times and he decided he wants to get involved and learn how to become an advantage player. He doubled my Bankroll giving me a Bank of ~$4000. We will be going out a few times a week so that I can play and for "training." I'm also training his cousin at this time too. This looks like the beginning of a team. At this time we decided on a 50/50 split. I know thats not ideal for me, but he is a family friend and I don't mind making the sacrifice. When I leave for the east coast we will see if it makes sense for the investor to give more money, and we will make a better agreement
 
#18
Yeah man, you're making a real sacrifice. You're such a nice guy for sacrificing so much for them. I tell you what. I would work for fucking casino comps if I was given an opportunity like that.
 
#19
I'm just going to say this now, training someone how to count cards in an actual casino is a horrible idea. Most of the work is done off the table and out of the casino.
 
#20
His cousin has been doing this for some time now and is ready for the table. I know that training someone new at the table is a bad idea. However that is what the investor wanted to do. He is mainly there to see what I do so he is comfortable with his investment but is learning as he goes along (at this point just playing/learning strategy). Even if he loses its not a big deal.
 
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