Discussion in 'Outside of USA' started by Koz1984, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Koz1984

    Koz1984 Well-Known Member

    As you may know, I frequent this website regularly and have a keen interest in advantage BJ in Australia, particular Crown Casino. I have amassed a small team of like minded card counting APs, yet, as most of you would know, the BR required to undergo a major casino assault is quite hefty, given the steep minimums at Crown. My plea to anyone out there, or anyone that may know someone who is interested in this, is for an investor(s) to help fund a team against Crown Casino. Of course, as investors, I'd be willing to apportion at least 50% of the profits to you, with the rest going to players. I envisage this to be a properly formed team with proper accounting etc. If anyone is interested, PM me. We will go through details in private, including game plan etc. For any major kind of profits, at least $50,000 is required, however, if we get interest from several investors then the requirement per investor will obviously be less, therefore reducing the overwhelming financial burden.
  2. tthree

    tthree Banned

    No offense, but why would anyone want to bankroll a BJ team to assault one of the worst games on the planet? What are the playing conditions again?
  3. Koz1984

    Koz1984 Well-Known Member

    This is aimed at Australian investors, with Crown BJ probably being the most viable casino for advantage play, given its shoes games. Other Australian casinos are littered with CSMs. With an aggressive bet spread Crown can offer quite a healthy return.
  4. shadroch

    shadroch Well-Known Member

    If you gather a decent BR, you could fly elsewhere for less than the cost of a single big bet.
  5. CountDracula

    CountDracula New Member

    Isn't Crown littered with CSMs too? How many non-CSM tables are there now?
  6. Koz1984

    Koz1984 Well-Known Member

    Enough, the Monte Carlo, Maple and Teak Rooms are all shoe based.
  7. gohiggins

    gohiggins New Member

    Shadrock makes a fair point. I'd have several questions as a potential investor for a Blackjack team such as your proposing - pertaining to Shadrock's point, what efforts have you made to seek more accommodating conditions. Cairns casino offers 0.5% HE against Crown's best (bar Mahogany) 0.65% game. If you are set on playing Crown, I'm curious as to why you haven't mentioned Mahogany as a possibility. Membership entry requirements aside, should you not aim to satisfy a similar interstate VIP program with another major city's High Limit room (Sovereign in Sydney for example/Club in Brisbane etc). With minimum BR requirements if you contact VIP marketing teams in other state you should be able to set up an interstate VIP program in one of these rooms - all of which, again, offer better games than the one you're proposing you play at Crown. I should expect your team be prepared to travel if a reliable income you plan to make from this.

    Further, regardless of playable conditions - what is your approach? How many APs do you have trained currently? i.e. What is their level of skill - and not simply in-house technical training and ability, I am mostly concerned with Table-Time in live casino environments. Counting teams can only expect to achieve true efficiency (in terms of signalling, understanding casino hierarchy and procedures, team synergy and dynamics as well as coordinating practical arbitrage such as ensuring team line of sight and developing positive relationships with casino staff) and confidence with a particular level of 'on-the-floor' experience that cannot be taught.

    If Crown is your primary target at the moment, based on the game they offer what size unit are your proposing? What is the effective spread for a $50,000 BR based on that unit? What is your MAX bet? What is your ROR? If your Spotters play Basic to maintain table control what is their projected loss? Based on team turnover, what is your projected hourly rate? How team hours will your sessions encompass? Similarly, what are your rostered individual man hours for the members of your team?

    Importantly, what is your N0. value? And as an investor, what time frame is your team prepared to wait before breaking the BR?

    In terms of contractual obligation, is my initial investment calculated as a percentage of the operating capital in which I own - i.e. will my share of your partnership compound as the BR grows? At what point, if any, may I voluntarily withdraw my capital contribution? What involvement will I have in decision making processes as a BR share holder in your partnership? Is your team using my BR contribution for wagering purposes only? OR, am I contributing to an overall working capital of the partnership, in that you are entitled to use said moneys as best you see fit to best profit the partnership? Is there an availability to request a third-party audit of the partnership's bookkeeping and records? What kinds of receipt and invoice evidence are available to me to accurately track the movements and use of my capital investment?

    I have experience training, managing and operating efficient and profitable teams in Australia. I had success in coordinating external investors and satisfying these kinds of queries by them, with as much hard evidence as they would care to notice - and then some. I had not intended this post to question your abilities or own experience in managing your team, I'm sure you are quite confident in yourselves. But, I would expect you to be able to answer all of the above in detail - not only for myself, but for any and all potential investors which you're offering to here in an open forum. I don't think answers to any of the above would solicit any really personal details and as such I don't think there should be any issue with posting them here.

    Feel free to ask of any further details of my queries here.

    I'll also be the first to say I had read this thread and created an account here simply to reply to it, as I'm very curious as to the original poster's response. As I mentioned, I used to run counting teams in Australia and as such I still keep an eye out here just to keep up to date if need be.

  8. jaygruden

    jaygruden Well-Known Member

    you should be having this discussion via pm not in open forum.
  9. zengrifter

    zengrifter Banned

    I like it in open forum.
  10. Dyepaintball12

    Dyepaintball12 Well-Known Member

    1. This should definitely be held openly so others can learn.

    2. How would a 3rd party audit work? How would the auditors be able to tell how much was won/loss effectively? Seems easy to hide
  11. Koz1984

    Koz1984 Well-Known Member

    gohiggins, thank you for your interest. Do you have an email address which we could communicate with and go over perhaps some of your credentials and past experiences with teams and I too will introduce myself, other members and go over our proposed strategy?
  12. gohiggins

    gohiggins New Member

    Koz, I'm happy to communicate with you via email once I'm satisfied that I would be 'seriously' interested in your venture. However, at this time I'm afraid that I couldn't say that my interest stems any further than a curiosity as to your commitment and openness about your project. I would imagine, in the first instance, that a good indicator of one who is fully committed and willing to be candidly open about their operation with a silent investor (such as myself) would be to show goodwill in answering the questions I've outlined above.

    I mentioned earlier that I don't feel that much of what I was querying would be really sensitive to discuss, and as some have commented above beig able to discuss these issues in open forum allows for further understanding and education for others interested in this line of work and, more importantly, how things should be done. Discussing some points here in open forum also lends itself to the benefit of having what things you and I say be critiqued (as it so often is) by our peers and, I'm sure, by those with more experience than you or I from abroad.

    As a gesture of goodwill to you you may contact me on this email address but, if it's all the same to you, I'd still be more comfortable keeping any preliminary communications here in your thread. But feel free to contact me regarding any person queries or information.

    My name is Geoff
  13. MeWin$

    MeWin$ Well-Known Member

    I smellz a rat

    Its a good post by O.Higgins but i smell a rat. Specifically i doubt this guy has the team running experience he says he has. He is vague only when he is discussing his past experiences and his email has the numbers 87 in it, usually that indicated what year the person was born in. So this guy's probably 24, and i dont know too many 24yr olds with the BR and experience hes talking about. If ur legit, bro, my apologies i just dont want to see good people get taken for a ride. Proceed w caution. Just my two cents.
  14. gohiggins

    gohiggins New Member

    Healthy criticisim MeWin, I appreciate what you're saying and I thought I'd point out, purely for the sake of open communication, that nobody is in any risk of being taken for a ride in this particular instance (not that I'm in the business of doing say anyway...) as I haven't been given any information that would, or does, instil confidence in investing money with koz1984.

    Koz has emailed, despite my requests for him to answer some very basic questions in open forum, and from the brief communication he forwarded to me I am of the opinion that he, and his associates, are not of a proficiency (both technical, or in a sense of the practicality of running a blackjack team) to be requesting for a third-party investor of a sum as large as he was proposing. - If anyone requires any further details of my sincere, albeit brief, impressions of koz and what he proposes I'm happy to answer to your queries here.

    I thought I'd share my conclusion of what impression I have taken away from this scenario here, prompted by MeWin's impression of me.

    - For what it's worth, I understand the scepticism I would put myself under for posting above. So, no hard feelings MeWin! And I thought I'd just say '87 isn't my birth year and Geoff O'Higgins isn't my name: I'm sure this will prompt similarly sceptical opinions now of my credibility, but for the purposes of establishing initial contact here in the forum I didn't see the harm in creating an email and an account. I'm sure we can all appreciate sometimes the sensitivity that is the AP industry.

  15. Koz1984

    Koz1984 Well-Known Member

    There is a reason I was succinct, I am still sceptical about your identity. It's laughable that you suggest you know my proficiency based on the, and I quote you, "brief communication" we had. I told you a bit about my general background playing BJ, I did not attempt to show you how skilful I was, so I think for the sake of everyone here, discount what this 3 post member has to say.
  16. MeWin$

    MeWin$ Well-Known Member

    I agree KOZ1984. Furthermore, he then takes the time to bash his alleged potential partner publicy, which no real business person would do.

    Troll on, troll on :)
  17. Dyepaintball12

    Dyepaintball12 Well-Known Member

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